Family politics rant - property

[Supermofo]

Ok. SIL moved to Spain 5 years ago, into a house owner by MIL. Originally this house was owner by Mrs Grandad and he passed it down to MIL. It was used as a holiday home only until 5 years ago. SIL was struggling to get pregnant ( they have a baby now but took about 20 goes at IVF) and when they ran out of NHS goes (they got 12 I think for health reasons) SIL/BIL decided they were selling up in the UK and were heading to Spain. Plan was 1 year in the villa to see if it'd work out then buy/rent somewhere.

1 year turned into 2 years of essentially living a retired lifestyle on the money they took with them. Since then they have had odd jobs but nothing proper and still speak no real Spanish. At the 18 month point Mrs asked what plan was and it'd now turned into 2 years to see if they'd settle. The 2 years is now 5 years. In all that time they have paid no rent and sound like they have blown all their money on IVF and not working much.

Early last year MIL says she wants to sort her will. She has a flat here and the Villa in Spain and wants to sign both over into joint ownership to her daughters. Within minutes of being told this (MIL mentioned it to SIL in Spain first as she was there) SIL/BIL jump straight in and say they'll have the villa in Spain and we can have the flat in UK and they don't mind that the villa in Spain is worth less than the flat in UK. To be honest it all sounded really money grabbing and distasteful considering the underlying subject IMO. They phoned us within 20 minutes of speaking to MIL to tell us how good a deal it all was.

But this avoids the HUGE elephant in the room. They have lived rent/mortgage free for 5 years (since they were 38) and they would essentially be getting a free house at the age of 38 whilst having also having had the benefit of selling their house in the UK and spending the money. Whereas Mrs might get jack as what if either parent needs health care for example and even if they didn't Mrs would get no benefit for potentially decades. As it all got difficult MIL said she'd think about it. But mentioned SIL needed to make her mind up with what she is doing in Spain as it was unfair she was essentially getting her inheritance already. MIL says short term she'd like to go to Spain more and didn't really want to share it with SIL short term.

At this time I said it wasn't really anything to do with me. Don't get me wrong I was really pished off about the whole situation as seemed to me that the Mrs is getting mugged off. But I kept myself out of it as it's not my inheritance. My advice was MIL should go to a solicitor but that anything that happened should be fair to both daughters. The only fair way I could see at the time was that the Villa in Spain should be signed to both daughters but that if SIL wanted it she'd need to buy Mrs out now considering it was no benefit to Mrs whilst SIL was getting a house. The UK flat could then go to both sisters equally when the time came.

Around the same time SIL announces she is pregnant. Then Covid happens so it's all on the backburner. Another year gone, another year of no rent and facebooks posts about our perfect life in the sun.

During covid Mrs is furloghed and very possibly will lose her job come Oct. I've taken a short term pay cut. We've been here before, we struggled through like most people on 1 salary when we had kids. But it's bought to a head again for the Mrs why we live like most people do paying your own way, whilst SIL gets a free ride year after year. I know this has upset the Mrs for a while, esp as she feels she'd like to spoil the kids more. If we had someone effectively give us a house or pay our mortgage off now it would be life changing. Mrs might not need to work and/or we could do loads more for the kids. But that's the thing, we aren't expecting or thinking anyone should do that for us. We believe in paying our own way.

But it's now got to the point where it's now boiling my Piss. No one is calling SIL out on the situation and I have no doubt they are taking the piss but are happy to let things bumble along for their benefit. Mrs really misses her sister and they've always been close and doesn't want to start a fight, she thinks MIL should sort it. But as far as I can see this is never gonna change. And I'm getting to the point where I just wanna cut them off or call it to their face like it is. I'm getting a bit sick of being nice about it all and getting facebook/whatsapp messges about 'our perfect life', 'no more 9-5 for us'. What makes it worse I've always got along with them and like them. But it's all feeling really two faced.

So. Do I have a right to be pissed off? And do I act on it now? I've swallowed this for 4 years, but seeing Mrs get upset about it, and seeing MIL do nothing to change it and SIL pretending like everything is magic with the world is really bothering me now. I already feel like I don't want to see them anymore and I've told the Mrs if they do come back for a visit I don't want to be around. I'm so pissed off I'm even spouting it here.

[moth]

Keep out of it, It's going to end badly.

I don't agree with the terms of my MIL's will (it takes cash off her other daughter, who's her carer and gives a wedge to my mrs' son), but it's got feck all to do with me.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I'd be pissed off too, but it's up to your MiL to decide how she treats her kids. You make your own way and pay your own bills, anything that comes as inheritance is a bonus.

Besides, it sounds like SiL might run out of money and receive a cold dose of reality fairly soon? So you can watch that if you want to feel some schadenfreude

[Horse]

Sorting out her will is very different to giving them the house now. If, as you fear, MiL needs full time care then both homes will have to be sold.

Perhaps remind SiL of that?

[Supermofo]

I think as I'm not expecting anything from my own parents I've always had the mentality you make your own life and I'm OK with that. We've been good with money and are doing alright and don't expect or want anyone to give us stuff.

I don't wanna live in Spain and I don't know what the answer is but getting proper annoyed at the Mrs being mugged off year after year. And as far as I can see its cos no one is challenging SIL on the unfairness of the current situation. All their mates here think they are taking the piss too.

MIL/FIL might not need care but even if they do and we need to sell both properties SIL will still effectively have been living a free life for years. Hence me wanting to tell them to stick their 'perfect life' up their Jacksy.

Dont get me wrong I watch the odd 'expat' reality show once in a while and have no doubt that when I'm retired they'll be like the people on there doing 3-4 different odd jobs to make ends meet in their retirement years but it still rankles

[Horse]

Quite understand you being upset on your wife's behalf. Try to see it as a reflection on them and look on the bright side: if they run out of cash they won't be flying back to pester you

[chillitt]

I would take the deal, as its the least complicated way of sorting it. (Then spend all my spare time working on getting the MIL to go live with them in Spain). Its a rubbish deal, but it has the least scope for giving tens of thousands to solicitors when it all goes tits up.

[Yorick]

No mention so far of inheritance tax.

Big tax over here when you inherit property. Even moreso if UK residents.

Can SIL afford to pay without selling the villa?

Just a thought.

[Supermofo]

No mention so far of inheritance tax.

Big tax over here when you inherit property. Even moreso if UK residents.

Can SIL afford to pay without selling the villa?

Just a thought.

Bugger knows. Seeing as they've learnt minimal Spanish they probably haven't done much research.

My Mrs did mention it as one of the reasons she'd rather have nothing to do with the villa in Spain. Its a nice cheap holiday but she doesn't want to get stung.

[Horse]

No mention so far of inheritance tax.

Big tax over here when you inherit property. Even moreso if UK residents.

Can SIL afford to pay without selling the villa?

Just a thought.

Bugger knows. Seeing as they've learnt minimal Spanish they probably haven't done much research.

My Mrs did mention it as one of the reasons she'd rather have nothing to do with the villa in Spain. Its a nice cheap holiday but she doesn't want to get stung.

A quick Google finds:

https://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/ ... 0pay%20and

Spanish Property InsightSpanishPropertyInsight

Larrain Nesbitt Lawyers
Article by

Raymundo Larrain Nesbitt

Who is Liable for Spanish Inheritance Tax?
Broadly anyone who inherits assets or rights in Spain is liable to pay Spanish Inheritance Tax; regardless if they are resident or non-resident.

• Residents: are liable for IHT under personal obligation (taxpayer’s fiscal residency is in Spain).

• Non-Residents: are liable for IHT under real obligation (location of assets or rights bequeathed/inherited is in Spain).


Does Drawing up a Spanish Will Reduce the Heir’s Inheritance Tax Burden?
Categorically no.


II. Deceased has only a UK Will (no Spanish will).
This is a scenario you categorically want to avoid for your heirs at all costs. It entails for your loved ones spending greater time, money and hassle. It has no associated advantage and numerous drawbacks.

The reason being is that Probate, in my experience, will exceed the six-month deadline to file IHT. Moreover it will exceed 12 months. This means that your beneficiaries (the people you name in your will to inherit your assets) will attract penalties and surcharges for late payment from the Spanish Tax Office on top of the Spanish Inheritance Tax which will add greatly to their tax bill. The translation of an English will into Spanish costs more than if the deceased had made a Spanish will in the first place…

But it gets worse, because heirs will also need to follow an expensive legal procedure in England & Wales, Scotland or Ireland that could have been easily avoided had the testator made a Spanish will. This is because a solicitor must be hired in the United Kingdom (or Ireland) to follow probate besides a Spanish lawyer; so you are effectively forcing your heirs to pay for two sets of legal fees when only one was required! I am sure the lawyers involved are indebted to your boundless generosity (and lack of judgement).

[Yorick]

No mention so far of inheritance tax.

Big tax over here when you inherit property. Even moreso if UK residents.

Can SIL afford to pay without selling the villa?

Just a thought.

Bugger knows. Seeing as they've learnt minimal Spanish they probably haven't done much research.

My Mrs did mention it as one of the reasons she'd rather have nothing to do with the villa in Spain. Its a nice cheap holiday but she doesn't want to get stung.

IIRC it's not like UK. There's no £350k threshold like UK.

Here you pay tax on unearned income from zero €€.

As an aside. In UK you have about 12k tax free allowance on earnings. It's €5.000 here.

But pay tax on ALL rental incomes. No tax allowance. Same with IHT.

[Mr. Dazzle]

My wife gets upset that my parents treat my brother differently to me too. I grew up with them treating him differently though, so it's just normal to me. It winds her up far more than it does me.

She also doesn't understand why my parents and I let him get away with his behaviour. Again, it's always been that way so I CBA to try anything differently. All I can say is live your own life, literally the only thing in this world you have total control over is your own reaction to stuff.

[Buckaroo]

I've had 45 years of this kind of nonsense. BIL was a complete waste of skin and rinsed FIL for a huge amount of cash. Only found out when he passed. Mrs is heart broken and the FIL is an arse. More money than I could ever imagine and squeaks when he walks.
Thing is we have paid for everything we own and have educated our kids, so he can go and do one.
Keep your head up and make your own way. Anything else is a bonus.

[MrLongbeard]

Support the other half in whatever decision she makes, other than that treat it like the elephants foot it is and keep shtum.

[Supermofo]

Support the other half in whatever decision she makes, other than that treat it like the elephants foot it is and keep shtum.

It's why I vented here to let me get it off my chest.

[the_priest]

it is MIL's problem to sort fairly. You can only support your wife.

My wife has essentially decided her inheritance will go to her brother because he has scuppered his career to look after the parents and is now a bachelor in his early 40's with no qualification. Should have been a lawyer by now but dropped uni to care for a very ill mother and then ill father and now lives with the father as a carer. Complicated.

And it is just money. I could say lots of things about what family issues around money and inheritances, but it is just money and I'm not bothered. We have paid our way and are very grateful for the bit we did get from my parents, not a lot at all, but by golly it was received with such love.

[Scotsrich]

You’ve also got to remember that in the worst scenario and both properties are sold for the parents care you’ll still have your own life back in the UK.

Your SiL could end up with no house ,no prospects and no money.

[Dodgy69]

Always a problem when son/daughter moves into parents property which one day will be passed down. Fairest solution...

Mil lives in UK.
Sell Spanish property.
Everything split 50/50 between the girls in will.
Sis and bil return to the real world.

Think I'd be pissed off aswel.

[Nordboy]

You’re not on your own. I have a similar situation in that my brother lives abroad, has very little to do with my mother apart from visiting once a year, yet seems to have worked out a way to get 75% of what my mother will pass down.

This pisses my wife off no end, me, i really don’t give much of a f***. It’s her stuff, not mine, she’s free to do with it what she wants. I know as soon as she goes and it’s all sorted, that i’ll probably not see/ speak to my brother again. We’ve never really got on.

But, the chances are, my mother will go on for years and anything she leaves to me, won’t really benefit me hugely as i’ll be getting on in age as well.

Families eh?

[Scotsrich]

You’re not on your own. I have a similar situation in that my brother lives abroad, has very little to do with my mother apart from visiting once a year, yet seems to have worked out a way to get 75% of what my mother will pass down.

This pisses my wife off no end, me, i really don’t give much of a f***. It’s her stuff, not mine, she’s free to do with it what she wants. I know as soon as she goes and it’s all sorted, that i’ll probably not see/ speak to my brother again. We’ve never really got on.

But, the chances are, my mother will go on for years and anything she leaves to me, won’t really benefit me hugely as i’ll be getting on in age as well.

Families eh?

That’s one of the sad things about parents dying. It’s often only them that keeps the immediate family together.

My wife has 2 brothers. They don’t speak much but have had to recently with my FiL passing away.

My wife moved up to Scotland to live with me and after the FiL’s house is sold and divvied up its unlikely she will go back down there again except for weddings/funerals.

It’s not that they all dislike each other it’s just they have their own lives to live.