revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Noggin thinks it's essential for negotiating mountain roads, particularly in the wet.

Me? I'm not so sure. I know it's useful to drag the back brake in low speed manoeuvres - as in the car park figure-of-8 waltz.

So. Is there anything/anywhere you wouldn't tackle if the rear brake decided to take a hollibob? I'm assuming you aren't in a hurry.

Only ever use the rear brake is if there's a car behind me as no front brake light.
Never on track.

But 50% of enduro is rear brake.

I did qualify the essentialness with the fact that I can't afford to fuck up the metal shoulder (probably not re-replaceabe) if the front lets go into a downhill hairpin on a wet road!!

So, I want one, but wouldn't inflict one on anyone that didn't want one!

You have to use it on my Enfield if you ever want to stop, especially two up.

I never ever used it when riding sports bikes (except to pull skids).

The GS has electronically linked brakes (unlike the mechanically linked brakes on my old Varadero), both bikes used the rear in someway when ever you applied the front... in fact the GS has a reputation for wearing out the rear discs even fit you never use the foot brake.

If my rear brake fell off, I'd not notice until the MOT man tells me it's missing next year

Yorick wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:14 pm But 50% of enduro is rear brake.

Really? I didn't know that. I've only ever done stuff like the Yamaha off-road school* and, tbh, they just said 'Don't touch the brakes**! Definitely don't touch the front brake'. Going downhill in mud you hoped the engine braking would slow you enough to brrrrp the back wheel round the next bend. I can see how a back brake would help if you were racing or doing some detailed manouevring though on iffy surfaces.

* Well, I have got a bit muddy on a bike with linked brakes
** Or the clutch

I've sort of grown into back brake use over the years.

I never used to use it much at all,except in the wet,but in later years I've found it a great tool for tightening a line,crappy road surfaces and slow speed/traffic stuff. It's a great way to keep the balance of a bike at low velocities.

The rear brake on the H1 is the only one with a brake light switch,so I'm mindful of that too,if someone is behind me.

In 2022 my MoT tester mentioned that I might want to keep an eye on my rear brake pads, he mentioned it again this year but they're the same pads.

I use the back brake on poor surfaces and slow speed filtering, but i don't do much of that nowadays. I reckon there's another three or four years life on the rear pads

Skub wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:31 pm I've sort of grown into back brake use over the years.

I never used to use it much at all, except in the wet ,but in later years I've found it a great tool for tightening a line,crappy road surfaces and slow speed/traffic stuff. It's a great way to keep the balance of a bike at low velocities.

The rear brake on the H1 is the only one with a brake light switch,so I'm mindful of that too,if someone is behind me.

That's the bit I was getting at. Is it the of locking up the front but the feeling that locking up the rear is less immediately disastrous that puts the emphasis on the rear going downhill on wet tricky roads? (I'm thinking back to years ago when FJRider said something about you have far more grip in the wet than most of us realise. I took him at his word and tested it out. Provided you're upright in a straight line, the front end grip is pretty amazing with modern tyres. Wouldn't want to repeat the exercise on gravel though).

Noggin wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:15 pm

I did qualify the essentialness with the fact that I can't afford to fuck up the metal shoulder (probably not re-replaceabe) if the front lets go into a downhill hairpin on a wet road!!

Indeed. I'm not questioning whether you should have one and I do remember some of those downhill hairpins. It's more of a 'if there's a £million waiting for you at the bottom of this many hairpin, wet, downhill route and you have no back brake', how would you ride it? sort of question. It's a bit hypothetical.

I've ridden in mud and in snow and, basically, you need to put your right hand in your pocket, so the back brake and engine braking is all you've got.

Skub wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:31 pm I've sort of grown into back brake use over the years.

I never used to use it much at all,except in the wet,but in later years I've found it a great tool for tightening a line,crappy road surfaces and slow speed/traffic stuff. It's a great way to keep the balance of a bike at low velocities.

The rear brake on the H1 is the only one with a brake light switch,so I'm mindful of that too,if someone is behind me.

This is also me, I use the rear brake quite a lot now, never used it all 30 years ago

The lower the levels of grip, the more rear brake gets used.
I use the rear whilst leant over to scrub off speed if I misread a corner. Before TCS i used to drag the back brake on the power to calm her down a bit!
Also a bit handy if you mono a bit............

It’s for putting the brake light on (on old wrecks like mine), dragging round slow tight manoeuvres and it’s part of having two independent means of stopping.

Have a scroll through:

viewtopic.php?t=1367

Well, I can confirm that in the dry there is no 'need' for a rear brake to head to the valley.

The only times I missed it were when I was stopped at traffic lights (There's two sets on the way down - and so back up - the mountain!!). On the flat it wouldn't really be an issue, but I do miss it at lights on the mountain

The other time was heading back up this afternoon. Bearing in mind that I've not driven or ridden this road for a long time, I headed into a corner at a 'reasonable' speed, but didn't notice the brand new tarmac until too late to slow before the corner (sun at wrong angle etc!)!! I did actually go for the rear brake then, but had to cross my fingers and ease off the throttle instead!

It's perfectly doable without the rear brake, but I would prefer to know it was there if I needed it!!

Just use it for slow control along with clutch.

Completely essential for low speed control.

You'll also stop faster using both rather than just the front. I won't be able to convince you of that online but if you try (and your back brake is working) you find that it's true.

Yes on the road its essential for control. On the track it depends on how the torque reaction affects the bike. I always found that applying the rear brake fractionally before the front planted the bike so that heavy front braking was more stable. Even if I say so myself I could outbrake many competitors, it was one of the few advantages I had, probably the only one. The rear wheel might try to become airborne so at that point the back brake should be released.

Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:32 pm This is also me, I use the rear brake quite a lot now, never used it all 30 years ago

Also me...

Well, maybe not the 30yrs ago bit...

The more mechanical grip that you have on the front tyre in relation to the bike, the rider and the conditions you are riding in as an organic system, the less rear brake use you will require... So on lightweight bikes with very grippy front tyres on ideal surfaces in ideal conditions ridden at high speeds, the rear brake is going to do very little if anything at all. Carl Fogarty famously claimed he never used the rear brake (in the dry) in WSB except to hold the bike still on the start line.

Add inclement conditions, a heavier bike, poor road surfaces, a pillion, less than ideal tyres, lower speeds (so less weight transfer) etc... Any of these will make back brakes use far more important.

Even 3yrs ago I never used the rear brake below about 20mph unless I had my GF on the back... Now I use it a lot more, even to tighten a line mid corner if required. But the crucial thing is not to start using the rear brake like a US Harley rider and just stomp on it with no finesse!

It's funny how many people will tell you the rear brake is "essential" for low speed control. I never use it for low speed control and I can do (and do, reasonably often) full lock U-turns. In fact the only time in a long time I've come close to stacking it at low speed was on the Bonnie - which doesn't have lock stops - when I turned hard enough to get my thumb trapped twixt bar and tank