Bikes in bus lanes

[Horse]

New DfT policy announcement:

- refresh the technical advice, making it clear local authorities should use their powers to ensure bus lanes are open to motorcycles, and will launch a consultation on motorcycles using bus lanes as a default

[Rockburner]

New DfT policy announcement:

- refresh the technical advice, making it clear local authorities should use their powers to ensure bus lanes are open to motorcycles, and will launch a consultation on motorcycles using bus lanes as a default

I don't ride in big towns much anymore (ie places with bus-lanes), but it always seemed utterly ludicrous to me that the rules on which vehicle types were allowed in or not are not the same nationally.

I don't particularly care if bikes are allowed into bus-lanes or not - but for [deity]'s sake, make it a fully national rule!

[Druid]

Sunderland has non-car lanes, so buses, bikes and white vans all fight for the same bit of tarmac

[Noggin]

Years ago I visited somewhere near Manchester. At the time bikes could go in bus lanes in Bristol and I assumed that it would be the same oop north. It wasn't Got a fine a few weeks later

[asmethurst99]

Going over the river to Dobles in Coulsdon past Croydon is a ballache as the bus lanes change what’s allowed in them.
I’m quite cautious using them but in places like Elephant and Castle they are actually safer as the lanes are very narrow.

[The Spin Doctor]

I don't ride in big towns much anymore (ie places with bus-lanes), but it always seemed utterly ludicrous to me that the rules on which vehicle types were allowed in or not are not the same nationally.

You should try London, where roads switch from TfL (which allows bikes in all their bus lanes) control to local borough (most of whom don't) control.

You can be in the same bus lane on the same road and it'll switch from one to the other. And natch, if you happen to be in the bit of bus lane which isn't permitted, you'll get a ticket - they often seem to have cameras... I wonder why!

I don't particularly care if bikes are allowed into bus-lanes or not - but for [deity]'s sake, make it a fully national rule!

Exactly. The same reason I favour the blanket urban 20... set that as the lowest common denominator rather than the current 'national urban speed limit' of 30 mph, which might not be.

Why? Easy enough. If you don't know the limit but guess 20 because there's a blanket 20 and you're wrong, you won't get a ticket. But if you assume 30 because that's what it's always been and fail to spot the new reduced local 20 limit (like I failed to see on Friday - I checked later and as you turn into the road, the sign's half in a tree) you could be in trouble.

[Scootabout]

p

Exactly. The same reason I favour the blanket urban 20... set that as the lowest common denominator rather than the current 'national urban speed limit' of 30 mph, which might not be.

Why? Easy enough. If you don't know the limit but guess 20 because there's a blanket 20 and you're wrong, you won't get a ticket. But if you assume 30 because that's what it's always been and fail to spot the new reduced local 20 limit (like I failed to see on Friday - I checked later and as you turn into the road, the sign's half in a tree) you could be in trouble.

I was alarmed when I heard about the change to a default 20 limit in Wales, because it makes a unique change to the urban NSL and will catch a lot of people out. So, a bit like the bus lane situation. Your suggestion is a solution that hadn't occurred to me, and it has the advantage of consistency - even though I'm not much of a fan of blanket 20 limits.

[Rockburner]

p

Exactly. The same reason I favour the blanket urban 20... set that as the lowest common denominator rather than the current 'national urban speed limit' of 30 mph, which might not be.

Why? Easy enough. If you don't know the limit but guess 20 because there's a blanket 20 and you're wrong, you won't get a ticket. But if you assume 30 because that's what it's always been and fail to spot the new reduced local 20 limit (like I failed to see on Friday - I checked later and as you turn into the road, the sign's half in a tree) you could be in trouble.

If you go about doing 20 in 30s most of the time, you're going to receive an awful lot of road rage from the great mass of drivers who just see vehicle travel as a means to an end.

[The Spin Doctor]

If you go about doing 20 in 30s most of the time, you're going to receive an awful lot of road rage from the great mass of drivers who just see vehicle travel as a means to an end.

No, that's not what I meant... you must have ridden or driven on to a road and thought "I've no idea what the speed limit is". And you've probably hovered at some kind of 'mid-speed' whilst you figure out whether what the limit is. Even on the bike test, the driving examiner will give you a chance to spot a repeater, for example.

The problem with the current mis-mash of 20s and 30s is that 20 ZONES (as opposed to 20 LIMITS) do not legally require repeaters. So if you pass a 20 zone sign without seeing it, you have to try to figure out what the limit actually is but you won't get a hint unless you have a GPS on the dash.

I think I saw the other day that 60% of urban roads are already 20s. So dropping the default urban limit to 20 makes a lot of sense... then 30s become the exception, and can be signed appropriately.

And to be honest, I'm far less worried about holding someone up for a few seconds whilst I figure out what the actual limit is than I am about picking up points and getting a chunky fine. You generally get a sense of whether you've got it right or wrong by how other drivers behave too.

[Rockburner]

If you go about doing 20 in 30s most of the time, you're going to receive an awful lot of road rage from the great mass of drivers who just see vehicle travel as a means to an end.

No, that's not what I meant... you must have ridden or driven on to a road and thought "I've no idea what the speed limit is". And you've probably hovered at some kind of 'mid-speed' whilst you figure out whether what the limit is. Even on the bike test, the driving examiner will give you a chance to spot a repeater, for example.

The problem with the current mis-mash of 20s and 30s is that 20 ZONES (as opposed to 20 LIMITS) do not legally require repeaters. So if you pass a 20 zone sign without seeing it, you have to try to figure out what the limit actually is but you won't get a hint unless you have a GPS on the dash.

I think I saw the other day that 60% of urban roads are already 20s. So dropping the default urban limit to 20 makes a lot of sense... then 30s become the exception, and can be signed appropriately.

And to be honest, I'm far less worried about holding someone up for a few seconds whilst I figure out what the actual limit is than I am about picking up points and getting a chunky fine. You generally get a sense of whether you've got it right or wrong by how other drivers behave too.

No - that's exactly what I meant.

If you're uncertain of the limit and you drop to 20 while you work it out, you're going to get at least 3 cars per journey up your arse thinking "What the f*ck is this doddery old idiot doing", and worst case scenario*, they'll try to overtake you where there's no room and force you into the gutter.

Most drivers are impatient morons paying very little attention to the actual dangers and risks, especially in 30 zones, and that needs to be taken into account.


* IE every day happenstance

[The Spin Doctor]

If you're uncertain of the limit and you drop to 20 while you work it out, you're going to get at least 3 cars per journey up your arse thinking "What the f*ck is this doddery old idiot doing", and worst case scenario*, they'll try to overtake you where there's no room and force you into the gutter.

Most drivers are impatient morons paying very little attention to the actual dangers and risks, especially in 30 zones, and that needs to be taken into account.

Since drivers do that in 20s already, I fail to see the difference... except to my licence.