revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Are roundabouts the SMIDSY location of choice?

In a roundabout way, @The Spin Doctor concluded we should take extra care on those pesky traffic circles:

https://ko-fi.com/post/COMMENT-July-10- ... dium=email

I think he also identified (from the online crash mapping) a high number of single vehicle crashes too.

https://ko-fi.com/post/SoS-July-15-Up-s ... -R6R0N8CQB

It does seem to me that in the last few years lane "disipline" on roundabouts has virtually disappeared. I constantly find people either going all the way round in the left hand lane or straight-lining regardless of other vehicles. As for indicating to leave before the exit before the one they want.....

The locals around here seem to take straight lining to a higher level. Roundabout is built up about 3 feet, with a black and white block pattern chevrons. After the weekend there is often a pile of random black and white blocks, plus assorted bits if grille, bumper, headlight etc.

I'm wary of car drivers on roundabouts, especially on the A12 at weekends, we get the London fuck Muppets going to Yarmouth, and they really are clueless, mix in all the dithering local pensioners and Martlesham is a hazard zone.

I think I must see someone exiting a roundabout while indicating right pretty much every day, i.e. turning right, but leaving their indicator going right the whole way around, up to and including leaving the roundabout. I'm sure they think "I'm indicating, therefore if I have a crash it's the other person's fault". The fact they're giving 100% the opposite to the correct signal probably never crosses their mind.

I've pretty much ceased looking at what people are indicating on roundabouts now, assuming it's a mistake. The only time I really pay attention is when it switches from right to left, 'cause I realise that's probably a conscious decision by someone who can actually signal properly

I do live in MK though, so I have more opportunity than most to observe this error.

Multi lane roundabouts are always going to be tricky because anyone in the lane(s) nearest the centre will inevitably have to cut across the other lanes to exit. Some decades ago I was driving a Landrover with limited low left side vision due to a spare wheel mounted on the bonnet and I didn't see that an over-ambitious driver had decided to undertake as I was heading for an exit. I was signalling left but there is only a limited time to use the signal because early signalling can also cause problems. The resulting minor accident was unfortunate but I never really decided where the blame lay.

I suppose the lesson here is that there is no circumstance where its safe to pull alongside a vehicle that will at some point be heading for an exit road.

Saw a bloke yesterday go the whole way around a roundabout with 4 exits in the left hand lane with no indication at all. Just didn't give a toss.

A few years back I had a woman in the left lane of 3 marked left only cut across me to go right with no indication. I was in the middle lane and due to how late she did it I nearly put my car through her rear door. There were 3 kids in the back. I wound the window down and without being all shouty pointed out what had nearly happened. She laughed at me and started doing 'la la la' noises with her fingers in her ears. I gave up. She's a twat and hopefully will end up getting her car smashed to bits by a truck, without the kids in the back obviously.

roadster wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:14 am I suppose the lesson here is that there is no circumstance where its safe to pull alongside a vehicle that will at some point be heading for an exit road.

Driving and riding near London has taught me that anywhere there is a car sized space some fool will put a car in it.

Cousin Jack wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 11:35 am

roadster wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:14 am I suppose the lesson here is that there is no circumstance where its safe to pull alongside a vehicle that will at some point be heading for an exit road.

Driving and riding near London has taught me that anywhere there is a car sized space some fool will put a car in it.

I find somewhere around Stirling corner going London bound the driving standards take a noticeable dive.

I narrowly avoided being taken out on a roundabout in Bristol years ago. The woman to my left realised she was in the wrong lane and wanted to be in my lane - actually, she appeared to want the bit of tarmac I was almost on! I avoided her and pulled up next to her at the traffic lights and spoke to her telling her she'd nearly knocked me off my bike. Her response was "but the signs said I had to be in the middle lane, so I moved into the middle lane" I was so gobsmacked I just didn't have an answer!!


But over here it's way way worse!! I ignore all indicators on all vehicles on or near roundabouts. I look at the wheels of traffic on the roundabouts as that gives me a better clue. The problem in general is that everyone indicates left, even if they are going straight across, most forget to indicate right before they get to the point of making the turn (or at all mostly). So you never actually know what direction they are going in. And even if they do indicate their intended direction, they often change their minds with no warning!!

Makes life interesting tho!!

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:59 am I think I must see someone exiting a roundabout while indicating right pretty much every day, i.e. turning right, but leaving their indicator going right the whole way around, up to and including leaving the roundabout. I'm sure they think "I'm indicating, therefore if I have a crash it's the other person's fault". The fact they're giving 100% the opposite to the correct signal probably never crosses their mind.

I've pretty much ceased looking at what people are indicating on roundabouts now, assuming it's a mistake. The only time I really pay attention is when it switches from right to left, 'cause I realise that's probably a conscious decision by someone who can actually signal properly

I do live in MK though, so I have more opportunity than most to observe this error.

Follow their eyes... people (mostly) look where they intend to go next.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:41 pm Follow their eyes... people (mostly) look where they intend to go next.

I'm enjoying the level of confidence displayed here. People actually looking where they're going, surely not?

I do take your point though. IME it's pretty obvious which way someone is about to go purely based on their road positioning and speed. Indicators are merely a bonus

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:53 am

The Spin Doctor wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:41 pm Follow their eyes... people (mostly) look where they intend to go next.

I'm enjoying the level of confidence displayed here. People actually looking where they're going, surely not?

I do take your point though. IME it's pretty obvious which way someone is about to go purely based on their road positioning and speed. Indicators are merely a bonus

If you have time to look, sometimes you might see their hands move on the wheel.

To your list, add which way the front wheels are pointing. That's useful when they're emerging from T junctions too.

Indicators only show that the lamp/LED works

I see people drive out onto roundabouts without looking all the time too. Unsurprisingly given my locale I get pretty much the full spectrum of roundabout idiocy every day

It's almost a joke with Mrs. D and I..."they didn't look". You can always see it coming, it's when you're on a roundabout where a 40mph road crosses a 70mph one at right angles. People on the 70mph one just go sailing across without really slowing down, hands and eyes rigidly fixed in the straight on position. Almost doesn't occur to them there might be someone coming! It's remarkable really.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:15 amPeople on the 70mph one just go sailing across without really slowing down, hands and eyes rigidly fixed in the straight on position.

Ah, didn't Spin say something about where they're looking?

But even looking is only pointing the head and eyes. They still need to see, understand, then make best decisions.

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:21 am
They still nedd to see, understand, then make best decisions.

Most people on the road have less than a passing aquaintanceship with the words, let alone the concepts they embody.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:15 am I see people drive out onto roundabouts without looking all the time too. Unsurprisingly given my locale I get pretty much the full spectrum of roundabout idiocy every day

It's almost a joke with Mrs. D and I..."they didn't look". You can always see it coming, it's when you're on a roundabout where a 40mph road crosses a 70mph one at right angles. People on the 70mph one just go sailing across without really slowing down, hands and eyes rigidly fixed in the straight on position. Almost doesn't occur to them there might be someone coming! It's remarkable really.

Or YOU didn't see them look

The average 'look' lasts just 0.6 seconds.

As I've talked about in Science Of Being Seen we have to be looking right AT someone to see if they are looking in our direction, it's not something we'll pick up in peripheral vision, and we also have a lot of different things to look at ourselves, so the chance of our own glances actually intersecting aren't THAT high.

Look at it from the practical point of view too - whilst roundabouts are collision hotspots (something my own ongoing research is making more obvious) the vast majority of road users obviously DO look well enough to get round the island. If they didn't, none of them would get much further than the first couple of roundabouts every time they set out.

Over here they are taught to indicate off the rondpoint.
The favoured tactic is to hug the outside of the roundabout until the desired exit arrives then go.
If I'm driving the moho, then I'll dominate 2 lanes of the roundabout and prevent the stupid bastards trying to slide up the inside, if I'm on the bike, then I use speed and manoeuvrability to keep me out of trouble

Demannu wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:20 pm Over here they are taught to indicate off the rondpoint.
The favoured tactic is to hug the outside of the roundabout until the desired exit arrives then go.
If I'm driving the moho, then I'll dominate 2 lanes of the roundabout and prevent the stupid bastards trying to slide up the inside, if I'm on the bike, then I use speed and manoeuvrability to keep me out of trouble

And the French do it when they come to the UK too, until they realise there is a very different technique in play in the UK.

The roundabout out of the Channel Tunnel exit into Calais are lethal if you don't know how the French drive them. Along with Priorite a Droit (which still exists all over Europe despite what many seem to believe) it was the second vital mention in my pre-ride briefings when I used to run training courses over in France.