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Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:30 pm
by Demannu
So say Northamptonshire's finest.
Are we expected to swallow this or is there any evidence to the contrary.
In my neck of the woods, they reduced the national limit to 50mph on A roads in a bid to combat RTAs and KSI figures, after 20 months, they put the speeds back to 56mph as the figures had (surprisingly) got worse!
As a former tearaway, the ONLY deterrent I can see that works would be a '3 points and you lose your license' rather than 6, which hopefully would make the young uns drive like a nun for a couple of years.
Or am I being naive and it's just about the revenue!
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:35 pm
by Skub
Until they invent a camera to improve driving standards,then it's all about the money,honey.
edit...oops,sorry. I've accidentally posted in staying alive again. The dangers of using 'new posts'.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:37 pm
by Demannu
Skub wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:35 pm
Until they invent a camera to improve driving standards,then it's all about the money,honey.
edit...oops,sorry. I've accidentally posted in staying alive again.
That's what happens when you smell of wee!
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:46 pm
by Yorick
They put cameras on straights.
Crashes don't happen on straights.
Hmm...
Oops, sorry. I just followed Skub in.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:30 pm
by Horse
Demannu wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:30 pmthey reduced the national limit to 50mph on A roads in a bid to combat RTAs and KSI figures, after 20 months, they put the speeds back to 56mph as the figures had (surprisingly) got worse!
I trust they took all the credit for that in the same way they would have done if there had been a drop ... ?
20 months is interesting (especially if it spanned covid, which really screwed the stats) as, typically, they would look at least three years' data before making decisions. Regression to the mean, and all that stuff.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:55 pm
by Cousin Jack
Money grabbing barstewards, all of them.
Locally the county council have started a policy of reducing ALL 30mph limits to 20mph (it will cost them £M1.3 in new signs, so they must be flush despite their protests of poverty). One of the roads already reduced has an average speed camera, and the residents of that area are now screaming 'foul' as they as they get caught out.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:50 pm
by Skub
The technology exists to prevent most vehicles from speeding,but they don't wish to stop anyone breaking the limit,they want to catch them.
That's where the dough is.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:31 pm
by wheelnut
Skub wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:50 pm
The technology exists to prevent most vehicles from speeding,but they don't wish to stop anyone breaking the limit,they want to catch them.
That's where the dough is.
North Yorks have got over 20 vans now. I did the stretch of the A19 between the A1 and the North Yorks border and counted 3. Two on bridges and one in a lay-by.
The way they’ve done the figures is that the speed awareness course threshold is quite high, not much under the summons territory.
Coincidentally, (
) North Yorks police get to keep the money from speed awareness courses, while the money for fixed penalties goes to central government coffers.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:38 pm
by Count Steer
wheelnut wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:31 pm
Skub wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:50 pm
The technology exists to prevent most vehicles from speeding,but they don't wish to stop anyone breaking the limit,they want to catch them.
That's where the dough is.
North Yorks have got over 20 vans now. I did the stretch of the A19 between the A1 and the North Yorks border and counted 3. Two on bridges and one in a lay-by.
The way they’ve done the figures is that the speed awareness course threshold is quite high, not much under the summons territory.
Coincidentally, (
)
North Yorks police get to keep the money from speed awareness courses, while the money for fixed penalties goes to central government coffers.
If the vans are contracted rather than full of real dibble, they'll need to be incentivised to hit targets in order to keep the coffers full....which explains why they place them to go kerrrching! rather than to reduce accidents.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:45 pm
by wheelnut
Count Steer wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:38 pm
wheelnut wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:31 pm
Skub wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:50 pm
The technology exists to prevent most vehicles from speeding,but they don't wish to stop anyone breaking the limit,they want to catch them.
That's where the dough is.
North Yorks have got over 20 vans now. I did the stretch of the A19 between the A1 and the North Yorks border and counted 3. Two on bridges and one in a lay-by.
The way they’ve done the figures is that the speed awareness course threshold is quite high, not much under the summons territory.
Coincidentally, (
)
North Yorks police get to keep the money from speed awareness courses, while the money for fixed penalties goes to central government coffers.
If the vans are contracted rather than full of real dibble, they'll need to be incentivised to hit targets in order to keep the coffers full....which explains why they place them to go kerrrching! rather than to reduce accidents.
Yep, the placing of them is obviously to get the greatest hits per hour.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:53 pm
by Demannu
Horse wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:30 pm
Demannu wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:30 pmthey reduced the national limit to 50mph on A roads in a bid to combat RTAs and KSI figures, after 20 months, they put the speeds back to 56mph as the figures had (surprisingly) got worse!
I trust they took all the credit for that in the same way they would have done if there had been a drop ... ?
20 months is interesting (especially if it spanned covid, which really screwed the stats) as, typically, they would look at least three years' data before making decisions. Regression to the mean, and all that stuff.
it.was touted as a trial from the outset,.and.over.the initial covid outbreak as well.
And yet the numpties kept.throwing themselves at the scenery with monotonous regularity
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:56 am
by Le_Fromage_Grande
Meh, the days of 150+ the length of the M180 are long gone, if you can't pay the fine, don't do the crime.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:22 pm
by Bigyin
wheelnut wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:31 pm
Coincidentally, (
) North Yorks police get to keep the money from speed awareness courses, while the money for fixed penalties goes to central government coffers.
The threshold for a FPN 3 pointer ticket used to be about 36 mph (depending on local guidelines) until the speed awareness courses took off. Most Forces guidelines now allow the offer of a speed awareness course of up to 42 mph if caught in a 30 ....kerchiiiing
As has been said the income generated by those courses is retained by local policing authority (after the company running the courses has taken its cut) rather than the FPN proceeds going to central government.
The only thing unmarked speed vans increase is revenue and paranoia
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:42 pm
by Count Steer
Speaking of speed. Stuck on a telephone pole I walked past today was a notice which appears to be the local authority preparing anyone that happened to read it* that they plan to do a blanket speed reduction on rural 40 limits to 30. The rationale for this wasn't presented. In fact you had to read it slowly with your finger under the words to find the nitty gritty.
* this pole was the equivalent of the basement where the by-pass plans were on 'display' in HHGTTG. I would estimate that this month, ooh, about one person ie me, would have happened to be passing close enough to read it unless a convention of telephone pole enthusiasts that happen to like yompin' in the hills happened to be passing.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:44 pm
by Cousin Jack
Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:56 am
Meh, the days of 150+ the length of the M180 are long gone, if you can't pay the fine, don't do the crime.
And if you can maintain an accurate 20 mph for more that about 1 second in a modern car without needing take your eyes off the road to check the speedo you are a better driver than I am.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:46 pm
by Scootabout
Count Steer wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:42 pm
Speaking of speed. Stuck on a telephone pole I walked past today was a notice which appears to be the local authority preparing anyone that happened to read it* that they plan to do a blanket speed reduction on rural 40 limits to 30.
Surrey?
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:51 pm
by Count Steer
Scootabout wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:46 pm
Count Steer wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:42 pm
Speaking of speed. Stuck on a telephone pole I walked past today was a notice which appears to be the local authority preparing anyone that happened to read it* that they plan to do a blanket speed reduction on rural 40 limits to 30.
Surrey?
Yup. The pole was on a footpath near that metropolis known as Friday Street.
They reduced the rural NSLs to 50 a few years ago. Some then got reduced to 40. Soon you could be on a 30 which, not long ago, was NSL. Marv.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:32 pm
by The Spin Doctor
Count Steer wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:42 pm
Speaking of speed. Stuck on a telephone pole I walked past today was a notice which appears to be the local authority preparing anyone that happened to read it* that they plan to do a blanket speed reduction on rural 40 limits to 30. The rationale for this wasn't presented. In fact you had to read it slowly with your finger under the words to find the nitty gritty.
* this pole was the equivalent of the basement where the by-pass plans were on 'display' in HHGTTG. I would estimate that this month, ooh, about one person ie me, would have happened to be passing close enough to read it unless a convention of telephone pole enthusiasts that happen to like yompin' in the hills happened to be passing.
Surrey Hills??
If so, I looked at this in Elevenses back in the summer. The argument is that it'll reduce serious crashes on rural roads. I checked the area using the Crashmap... almost all the injury crashes - minor, serious or fatal - happen on the main roads that aren't covered by the blanket reduction or in the built-up areas.
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:00 pm
by Rockburner
The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:32 pm
Count Steer wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:42 pm
Speaking of speed. Stuck on a telephone pole I walked past today was a notice which appears to be the local authority preparing anyone that happened to read it* that they plan to do a blanket speed reduction on rural 40 limits to 30. The rationale for this wasn't presented. In fact you had to read it slowly with your finger under the words to find the nitty gritty.
* this pole was the equivalent of the basement where the by-pass plans were on 'display' in HHGTTG. I would estimate that this month, ooh, about one person ie me, would have happened to be passing close enough to read it unless a convention of telephone pole enthusiasts that happen to like yompin' in the hills happened to be passing.
Surrey Hills??
If so, I looked at this in Elevenses back in the summer. The argument is that it'll reduce serious crashes on rural roads. I checked the area using the Crashmap... almost all the injury crashes - minor, serious or fatal - happen on the main roads that aren't covered by the blanket reduction or in the built-up areas.
The council have probably had a lot of complaints
Re: Unmarked camera Van's will increase road safety
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:12 pm
by Count Steer
The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:32 pm
Surrey Hills??
If so, I looked at this in Elevenses back in the summer. The argument is that it'll reduce serious crashes on rural roads. I checked the area using the Crashmap... almost all the injury crashes - minor, serious or fatal - happen on the main roads that aren't covered by the blanket reduction or in the built-up areas.
Yes. The joke is that the nearest road to the sign would be
at anything more than 20mph. (It's pretty much single track with a steep bank on one side and the odd passing place + on Monday it was covered in ice
). Same with a lot of other rural 'NSL' roads - you're lucky if you can do 30 without clenching yer bum). They must be worried that the speed limit is actually taken as a compulsory minimum.