revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Ignore the commentary, it’s the first video I found. I tried to upload one which was the same but it got taken down.

Debate away, keep it civil.

JR is in my good books for once as it helps Toprak but also makes the remainder of the season more exciting as the top 3 are much closer now and the championship is still well and truly on for them all.

As for the incident you can never prove it was deliberate but just watch the video and “say what you see”. The more I watch it the more I believe there is potentially a deliberate act of some sort there, before he makes contact with AB you can clearly see his left arm/elbow move out towards AB, his whole body essentially moves at this point and the bike also seems to move in that direction towards AB which when you had already initially started to tip in for the right hander makes it look even more noticeable.

But, regardless of whether it was intentional or not I do feel the punishment was not enough, i think at least a 2 long lap penalty or maybe even a black flag as AB says, but 2 x LLP at the least.

FOr me as per the other thread, it's like when you're too close to an oncoming car and you sort of semi-swerve back towards it as you edge away quickly... So you end up looking closer than you wanted, not further away. I'd say it's more a physical reaction to 'ooooh i'm gonnnaa.... ' rather than a deliberate act.

That said... i thought 1 long lap was pretty lenient too.... I'd say 2 minimum. I know rubbing is racing... but there's the overtakes they've all been doing this year... rubbing.... and there's this one, walloping.

Looks deliberate to me — but with just enough dressing as a racing accident

weeksy wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:33 am FOr me as per the other thread, it's like when you're too close to an oncoming car and you sort of semi-swerve back towards it as you edge away quickly... So you end up looking closer than you wanted, not further away. I'd say it's more a physical reaction to 'ooooh i'm gonnnaa.... ' rather than a deliberate act.

That said... i thought 1 long lap was pretty lenient too.... I'd say 2 minimum. I know rubbing is racing... but there's the overtakes they've all been doing this year... rubbing.... and there's this one, walloping.

Yeah I read that. Only thing about that for me is these guys are in this position all the time, almost leaning on each other so I wouldn’t expect them to have that sort of reaction, i’m not saying that it couldn’t and doesn’t happen I just feel that when you see them fighting like this all the time then why all of a sudden does he have that sort of reaction. But very possible.

wull wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:37 am

weeksy wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:33 am FOr me as per the other thread, it's like when you're too close to an oncoming car and you sort of semi-swerve back towards it as you edge away quickly... So you end up looking closer than you wanted, not further away. I'd say it's more a physical reaction to 'ooooh i'm gonnnaa.... ' rather than a deliberate act.

That said... i thought 1 long lap was pretty lenient too.... I'd say 2 minimum. I know rubbing is racing... but there's the overtakes they've all been doing this year... rubbing.... and there's this one, walloping.

Yeah I read that. Only thing about that for me is these guys are in this position all the time, almost leaning on each other so I wouldn’t expect them to have that sort of reaction, i’m not saying that it couldn’t and doesn’t happen I just feel that when you see them fighting like this all the time then why all of a sudden does he have that sort of reaction. But very possible.

I figure the difference is, when they're usually racing they pretty much know the overtake is OK, it'll be close and there 'may' be a brushing of fairing, but without issue.... time and time again. However in this instance Rea thought "oh fuck this is proper"..

At the end of the day it could quite easily have taken him out too, so whilst the final part may or may not have been more deliberate, the overall incident wouldn't have been.. He got it wrong...

I think it would be super hard to do it deliberately and be confident that you're not going down too. I'm with Weeksy on the swerve thing, we've all done it.

Being generous maybe he grabbed a bit of extra brake and stood the bike up...?

It did look deliberate, though, especially from the angle in the second clip above.

I know racing history has seen blatant use of opponents as a berm,Rossi and Gibernau went unpunished. Probably the worst I've ever watched was Loris Capirossi and Tetsuya Harada, Capirossi came from miles back,ran into the side of Harada,then won the race and the 250 championship. No punishment.





I don't believe JR intentionally offed Bautista,for me it was totally a racing incident,the elbow was just a self defence reaction. We want close racing and this type of thing is what happens in high speed close racing.

From the horse's mouth.

About the collision with Alvaro, there are two sides to any story and now I have had time to process all the information let me express my feelings clearly. Number one – and most important – I did not plan or want to come into contact and even when we did touch, the last thing I expected or wanted was for him to fall and not be able to continue the race. That is something I want to say firmly before speaking of how it happened from my side.
In terms of incident, I was on the limit to make the manoeuvre, I went for the pass, his line was closing towards me on his inside and at one point I had to adjust my trajectory as to not close the front myself. I made my apex and unfortunately, he went down.
I am really sorry for that because it was really not my intention. After the race I went to see Alvaro and offered my apologies. As riders, we compete at the limit and we sometimes touch each other. This weekend Alvaro also came into contact with a rider in the SP Race, right in front of me, losing a wing off his bike and throwing it into my path. Also, other riders touched me this weekend; its racing and it happens. Unfortunately, Alvaro crashed this time, and I got the long lap as per Race Direction decision which I fully accepted.
I wish Alvaro all the best in the remaining races of the season and as far as I am concerned it is an unfortunate incident that it is already behind us. Now we look forward to racing in Catalunya.
See you on the track
Jonathan Rea

Well he was unlikely to say "i went for a pass and nerfed the fucker just to get him out of the way" was he ?

Looking at those videos he either thought he was going to loose the front, or nerfed him off deliberately, I'm veering towards the latter.

Oh God, now he's back to his moaning, whining best. He's told us he's whiter than white, but now everyone else is dangerous.
Give it a rest

https://www.crash.net/wsbk/news/1012222 ... t-red-mist

Rinaldi makes a good point which I think could help Rea out, Bautista also touched on this a few weeks back, in fact I think he mentioned it just after the start of the summer break. He makes these moves early on in the race when it doesn’t really matter, you’d maybe expect them on the last lap, that’s something Rea was always good at. He’d wait patiently and take the lead on the final lap or final laps, he’s too eager to be in front now regardless of whether he has the pace or not.

That’s something AB touched on, he believes when Toprak makes a move it’s because he feels he can pull away and is relatively clean in doing so ( AB’s words not mine - but I agree ) but Rea just wants to be ahead regardless of anything.

Yorick wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:48 pm Oh God, now he's back to his moaning, whining best. He's told us he's whiter than white, but now everyone else is dangerous.
Give it a rest

https://www.crash.net/wsbk/news/1012222 ... t-red-mist

Or he got asked a question in an interview and gave his opinion ?

Riders can't win... if they don't give interviews they're classed as robots and arrogant... they give them and they're whingers

I still recall loads of this about Crutchlow

"Cal, what happend today"
"bike wasn't right, i couldn't get it to turn and had no grip"

WHINGER !!!

Really ? WTF was he supposed to say "yeah i had a great time arsin about in 12th"

weeksy wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:04 pm

Yorick wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:48 pm Oh God, now he's back to his moaning, whining best. He's told us he's whiter than white, but now everyone else is dangerous.
Give it a rest

https://www.crash.net/wsbk/news/1012222 ... t-red-mist

Or he got asked a question in an interview and gave his opinion ?

Riders can't win... if they don't give interviews they're classed as robots and arrogant... they give them and they're whingers

I still recall loads of this about Crutchlow

"Cal, what happend today"
"bike wasn't right, i couldn't get it to turn and had no grip"

WHINGER !!!

Really ? WTF was he supposed to say "yeah i had a great time arsin about in 12th"

He knocked Bautista off then moaned that others were nasty to him.
Aww diddums.

If Mike Yarwood was still about he'd have a field day with JR.

Hey, it's not fair, his bike's better than mine.
Oh sir, them boys won't play nicely

Etc...

wull wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:03 pm Rinaldi makes a good point which I think could help Rea out, Bautista also touched on this a few weeks back, in fact I think he mentioned it just after the start of the summer break. He makes these moves early on in the race when it doesn’t really matter, you’d maybe expect them on the last lap, that’s something Rea was always good at. He’d wait patiently and take the lead on the final lap or final laps, he’s too eager to be in front now regardless of whether he has the pace or not.

That’s something AB touched on, he believes when Toprak makes a move it’s because he feels he can pull away and is relatively clean in doing so ( AB’s words not mine - but I agree ) but Rea just wants to be ahead regardless of anything.

I think that's bang on - he does seem to be rather to frantic in the early stages of races.

These boys are pushing harder than most of us can even imagine, mistakes are made. 1 LL was pretty lenient but I can't believe JR would do this on purpose.
For me they're all super heroes and frankly I'm not fit to critisize them.

Can’t believe people on here who have raced in the past think any bike racer would consider deliberately ramming another bike!
It’s not bloody touring cars, no way to predict what the outcome would be,even if you were dense enough to try it in the first place.

singlesman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:51 pm Can’t believe people on here who have raced in the past think any bike racer would consider deliberately ramming another bike!
It’s not bloody touring cars, no way to predict what the outcome would be,even if you were dense enough to try it in the first place.

Having raced in the past I’m quite happy to believe a rider would take another one out even at club level and these days even on a Trackday where there is no race ! At world level there is no such thing as a nice guy especially if they are multiple world champions and I have no trouble believing a rider is capable of pushing another off. In this case it certainly looks a bit suspect.