A2 license restrictions.

[singlesman]

Could any of you knowledgeable motorcycle instructors/trainers give us a definitive answer on what can be ridden on a A2 license?
I’d always assumed there was just a horsepower restriction, but am now thinking it’s based on power to weight.
What my lad really needs to know is can he ride a wr250f, Crf250x or similar with an A2?
Any advice would be great.
Cheers, Paul.

[Horse]

Have you looked on .gov.uk?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ding-tests

https://www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-mope ... quirements

Sorry I can't be more helpful, I stopped L training when DAS came in.

[Bigyin]

Off the top of my head he should be fine on both of those you suggested but the CRF isn’t powerful enough to use on an A2 test but rideable on an A2 license. The WR is good enough for test and post test riding.

Most 250 trail bikes can be ridden on an A2 license but don’t make enough power to be used for an A2 test

The list Horse linked will give a very good idea but it’s a list for test requirements . The requirements for test don’t equate to what you ride afterwards just the same as a full A license allows you to ride a Vespa 250 but the Vespa would be powerful enough for a A license test if you see what I mean

[Skub]

That's some convoluted process. There'd be plenty of complaining if you had to do multiple car tests to comply.

[Bigyin]

That's some convoluted process. There'd be plenty of complaining if you had to do multiple car tests to comply.

Lots of hoops to jump through now mate. Gone are the days of passing test on a 125 at 17 then jumping on a GSXR1000. You can’t even ride anything more than a 125 till you are 19 now and the earliest you can get on a full power big bike till you are 21 and that’s after 2 sets of Module 1 and Module 2 tests.

I have a lad on Friday taking his A license Module 2 test after 2 years riding on an A2 bike

[Skub]

That's some convoluted process. There'd be plenty of complaining if you had to do multiple car tests to comply.

Lots of hoops to jump through now mate. Gone are the days of passing test on a 125 at 17 then jumping on a GSXR1000. You can’t even ride anything more than a 125 till you are 19 now and the earliest you can get on a full power big bike till you are 21 and that’s after 2 sets of Module 1 and Module 2 tests.

I have a lad on Friday taking his A license Module 2 test after 2 years riding on an A2 bike

I passed my test on a 250 Yamaha after serving a years ban when riding a 250 Suzuki. Next up was a 350 Yam,then a 900 Z1 at 19.

Given the human wrecking ball I was,restrictions back then probably would have saved me a lot of skin.

[slowsider]

I crashed at steadily increasing speeds. 125, 250, 550. You're right, the low speed practice paid off.

[singlesman]

That’s really helpful, thanks gents.
Thought I was being a bit dense but they really don’t make it too easy do they?
I guess Statistics will show it’s all worthwhile but it must put an awful lot of youngsters off bothering with getting a bike license.

[The Spin Doctor]

That’s really helpful, thanks gents.
Thought I was being a bit dense but they really don’t make it too easy do they?

The regs are fairly simple - it's interpreting them which is tricky!

Basically, with the A2 licence you're restricted to a machine up to 35kW (46.6 hp)

But there's also a power to weight ratio - that must be no more than 0.2kW per kilogram. The easiest way to work this out is to look for a minimum kerb weight of 175kg. Anything weighing in less than 175kg, must be restricted to less than 35kW to be A2 legal. The KTM 390 is an example.

But unless you're looking at quite old bike, simply check the manufacturer's website for the specs. Many machines which produce more than 35kW out of the box can be restricted for the A2 licence - the new-ish 660 Triumph triples are a good example, and so - rather bizarrely - can the GSX-S950.

I guess Statistics will show it’s all worthwhile but it must put an awful lot of youngsters off bothering with getting a bike license.

That was the plan! The motorcycle industry refused to do anything about the high fatality rate so when the EU introduced stepped licences, the UK government gold-plated the regulation and made it as difficult as possible to get a bike licence by demanding separate tests at each stage.

Unfortunately, the EU really didn't think it through - the rules mean that if you pass a test on a 125 you get a full licence for a 125, and if you want to move up to an A2 licence you need to get qualified.

The EU actually had the option for this step to be made via a training / assessment option at a training school (so rather like a CBT which validates a provisional licence) but the UK government decided that 'learners' would have to go through the entire mod 1 / mod 2 test again even though they'd previously passed the test on the 125 - so predictably, no-one under 21 in the UK bothers to take a test now! Instead they ride around on CBTs with just enough training not to kill themselves leaving the school.

[singlesman]

@The Spin Doctor , that’s also really helpful thanks, will forward your post onto my Son and he can workout how he want to approach taking the test.
He’s only looking to do enduro events which will have some road sections so needs be road legal.
Thanks again.

[Bigyin]

@The Spin Doctor , that’s also really helpful thanks, will forward your post onto my Son and he can workout how he want to approach taking the test.
He’s only looking to do enduro events which will have some road sections so needs be road legal.
Thanks again.

He can use a school bike to take the test as they will have some that come within the A2 restriction. Once he passes the test on their bike he can ride a smaller enduro bike well within the limits of the license

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

can the GSX-S950.

The whole reason for the 950s existence is that it can be restricted to A2, it's a low power GSX-S 1000, because the 1000 is too powerful to be restricted to A2, the GSX-S 750 used to fill this role, but Suzuki UK decided to stop importing that bike.

[The Spin Doctor]

The whole reason for the 950s existence is that it can be restricted to A2, it's a low power GSX-S 1000, because the 1000 is too powerful to be restricted to A2, the GSX-S 750 used to fill this role, but Suzuki UK decided to stop importing that bike.

Absolutely.

The 950 name refers to the power output - 95 ps. That's the maximum a bike can produce and still legally be fitted with a restrictor kit. It's a one-off for the Euro market I believe.

AFAIK the 750 couldn't be upgraded to Euro 5.

[Bigyin]

The EU actually had the option for this step to be made via a training / assessment option at a training school (so rather like a CBT which validates a provisional licence) but the UK government decided that 'learners' would have to go through the entire mod 1 / mod 2 test again even though they'd previously passed the test on the 125 - so predictably, no-one under 21 in the UK bothers to take a test now! Instead they ride around on CBTs with just enough training not to kill themselves leaving the school.

I have heard there might be discussions going on for exactly that and that selected ATB’s might be given the ability to upgrade A2 riders who have 2 years experience onto full A licenses without the need for a DVSA MOD1 and MOD2 test to free up some more spaces. Won’t be every training school, only those with certain standards from the local regional assessment officer who scores each instructor.

[Horse]

I have heard there might be discussions going on for exactly that and that selected ATB’s might be given the ability to upgrade A2 riders who have 2 years experience onto full A licenses without the need for a DVSA MOD1 and MOD2 test to free up some more spaces. Won’t be every training school, only those with certain standards from the local regional assessment officer who scores each instructor.

Years ago I was invited to a meeting about rider training, attended by two very senior DSA staff (including the chief examiner).

"We're open to any suggestions!"

OK, how about allowing instructors to use competency-based assessments to award full licences?

"Any suggestions except that one!"

[Bigyin]

Years ago I was invited to a meeting about rider training, attended by two very senior DSA staff (including the chief examiner).

"We're open to any suggestions!"

OK, how about allowing instructors to use competency-based assessments to award full licences?

"Any suggestions except that one!"

Thats still off the table and verboten to even suggest. The only give is on the progressive path from A2 to A. Even A1 to A2 hasn’t been put up as possible as the jump from 125 is seen as too much to trust instructors with regarding licenses

[Horse]

Although you're trusted to sign CBTs and let people loose ...

[The Spin Doctor]

I have heard there might be discussions going on for exactly that and that selected ATB’s might be given the ability to upgrade A2 riders who have 2 years experience onto full A licenses without the need for a DVSA MOD1 and MOD2 test to free up some more spaces. Won’t be every training school, only those with certain standards from the local regional assessment officer who scores each instructor.

I've also heard word that it's been tabled for discussion.

Only schools with 'certain standards'?

Rather hope not as that would create a two-tier system.

If that's correct, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find the MCIA behind it, either. A few years ago, they were pushing their own accreditation scheme through the Motorcycle Rider Training Association, and that folded in 2020, probably due to the lack of take-up. They'd love to take control of bike training.

[Horse]

If that's correct, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find the MCIA behind it, either.

they were pushing their own accreditation scheme through the Motorcycle Rider Training Association, with no apparent benefits to trainees or instructors.

EFA?

[The Spin Doctor]

Wot that?