Riding beyond your limits/trusting your mates

[Demannu]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/uk ... gn=organic

Gotta get me a 1400cc R1 tho'

[mangocrazy]

With 'friends' like that, who needs enemies?

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

That's a terrible article, really badly written.

[Mussels]

I had to Google it elsewhere to try and understand it, he signalled his mate to filter between a van and lorry and then brake tested the van. Anyone interpret it differently?

[Trinity765]

I had to Google it elsewhere to try and understand it, he signalled his mate to filter between a van and lorry and then brake tested the van. Anyone interpret it differently?

I did the same and no - that's how I understood it.

[The Spin Doctor]

"Earlier on the day of the crash, the pair had picked up their powerful Yamaha R1 machines from a lock-up in Stockport. Cambell's was a silver 1400cc version"

Court reporter - usual quality...


And a similarly depressing story of a 'mate' leading another rider to his death in the Channel Islands... it's easy to say "don't try to keep up" but peer pressure is really difficult to overcome.

"As they drove up the hill, Haydn was riding behind his friend’s motorcycle and the car was following at the rear of the group. Several people witnessed the two motorcycles, and one car driver said “the manner of both riders was complete lunacy, stupidity, naïve and dangerous. It looked like they were chasing each other and trying to stay close.”

As the lead motorcyclist rounded the left hand bend near the Chemin Robin Estate, a bus was driving down the hill in the opposite direction. The court heard how the bus was travelling slowly as it was a blind bend, and neither the bus nor the motorcycles could see fully around the corner to see what was coming in the opposite direction.

The court heard how the bus driver recalled seeing the lead motorcycle come around the bend at speed. The driver brought the bus to a complete stop, and described the lead motorcycle as leaning to the side, nearly losing his balance before straightening up and speeding off.

CCTV footage taken from the bus showed how Haydn followed almost immediately behind the lead motorcyclist. He was unable to keep control when he saw the bus and skidded, crashing into the front underside of the vehicle."

https://www.itv.com/news/channel/2022-0 ... fore-death

[wull]

I’m calling bullshit!

I reckon the van driver was raging at the bike passing and narrowed the gap so the second bike couldn’t pass and caused the accident himself, is there any proof of this said “brake check”??????

[Mussels]

I’m calling bullshit!

I reckon the van driver was raging at the bike passing and narrowed the gap so the second bike couldn’t pass and caused the accident himself, is there any proof of this said “brake check”??????

It could all be made up, I could find different edits but not a different version of the story.

[The Spin Doctor]

The police will have carried out an exhaustive forensic investigation of the incident. You get a hint of that from the multiple CCTV footage they must have assembled.

[mangocrazy]

The police will have carried out an exhaustive forensic investigation of the incident. You get a hint of that from the multiple CCTV footage they must have assembled.

I'd tend to call it 'survivor bias'. If there is on-board dashcam footage from either/both of the van and/or wagon, that would be conclusive, but the report does not make mention of either dashcam or CCTV footage. This infers that the sequence of events were recounted by the van & HGV drivers, both of whom will have a vested interest in the motorcyclist being the instigator.

Don't get me wrong, the bloke who was the instigator sounds like a complete cock and shouldn't even be allowed near a moped. He also showed a chilling lack of concern for his 'pal' after contributing to his demise.

But history is written by the survivors.

[Mussels]

The police will have carried out an exhaustive forensic investigation of the incident. You get a hint of that from the multiple CCTV footage they must have assembled.

I believe the police and the courts would have been thorough and correct, I just get the feeling the journalist didn't have a clue what went on and made bits up.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

the journalist didn't have a clue what went on and made bits up.

That could never happen, journalists are the bastions of truth and integrity

[wull]

The police will have carried out an exhaustive forensic investigation of the incident. You get a hint of that from the multiple CCTV footage they must have assembled.

Of course they would have, that’s protocol for a road traffic accident fatality and or if there’s the possibility of a fatality then a thorough investigation will be carried out by the team.

My point is on what evidence are they saying he was brake checked? Is there skid marks from the van to suggest an evasive manoeuvre or is it just a simple case of he said she said. Is there dash cam footage showing this? It’s pretty vague other than this is what happened to not saying how they came to that conclusion.

[JackyJoll]

I’m calling bullshit!

I reckon the van driver was raging at the bike passing and narrowed the gap so the second bike couldn’t pass and caused the accident himself, is there any proof of this said “brake check”??????

You reckon yet another cager has got off with murder!

[Skub]

The police will have carried out an exhaustive forensic investigation of the incident. You get a hint of that from the multiple CCTV footage they must have assembled.

When my mate was killed 19 years ago,it actually got as far as the inquest and the police had him wrongly driving in the opposite direction. All their exhaustive forensic examination of the incident was completely based on error.

[Bigjawa]

The police will have carried out an exhaustive forensic investigation of the incident. You get a hint of that from the multiple CCTV footage they must have assembled.

Of course they would have, that’s protocol for a road traffic accident fatality and or if there’s the possibility of a fatality then a thorough investigation will be carried out by the team.

My point is on what evidence are they saying he was brake checked? Is there skid marks from the van to suggest an evasive manoeuvre or is it just a simple case of he said she said. Is there dash cam footage showing this? It’s pretty vague other than this is what happened to not saying how they came to that conclusion.

Isn't a dashcam mandatory for a commercial policy these days? I know it is for our place, everything on the policy has to have a one fitted.

[The Spin Doctor]

I believe the police and the courts would have been thorough and correct, I just get the feeling the journalist didn't have a clue what went on and made bits up.

Well, that's certainly been a route to fame and fortune in at least one extremely high profile case.

However, as far as hack journalism's concerned I believe court reporter is just about the lowest of the low... so yes, technical understanding near zero.

But making it up? I think you'd soon be found out. As soon as the paper published and someone (police, anguished families) complained. I'm not sure if it's law but there was a consultation on an offence in law too - court reporting of ongoing trials has to be accurate. I don't know if that applies after the court delivers a verdict, but I'd honestly doubt that anything other than factual reporting is frowned on. You'll note that there's zero speculation BY THE REPORTER - he or she is simply repeating what other people said.

[The Spin Doctor]

My point is on what evidence are they saying he was brake checked? Is there skid marks from the van to suggest an evasive manoeuvre or is it just a simple case of he said she said. Is there dash cam footage showing this? It’s pretty vague other than this is what happened to not saying how they came to that conclusion.

What evidence is there to say he wasn't brake checked?

You've got evidence from CCTV of a pair of riders riding like twats for mile after mile, yet because the rider was the one who suffered, you assume that it was the driver who was responsible for the crash?

Police do get things wrong and they do occasionally lie (I know one case where two plod in a car fabricated the speed of the bike they stopped, probably because my mate would have had a bit of an 'attitude' when stopped). But given the weight of evidence about the riding in the run-up to the collision I think Occam's Razor applies.

I notice from earlier reports that Hempenstall had just pulled onto the westbound carriageway of the M62 at its junction with the M602. From photos which must have been taken very shortly after the crash, it looks like the inside two lanes of one carriageway - presumably the one where the collision happened - are closed... which is presumably why he collided with what was described as heavy maintenance plant machinery after hitting the Transit.

[cheb]

The police will have carried out an exhaustive forensic investigation of the incident. You get a hint of that from the multiple CCTV footage they must have assembled.

Of course they would have, that’s protocol for a road traffic accident fatality and or if there’s the possibility of a fatality then a thorough investigation will be carried out by the team.

My point is on what evidence are they saying he was brake checked? Is there skid marks from the van to suggest an evasive manoeuvre or is it just a simple case of he said she said. Is there dash cam footage showing this? It’s pretty vague other than this is what happened to not saying how they came to that conclusion.

Isn't a dashcam mandatory for a commercial policy these days? I know it is for our place, everything on the policy has to have a one fitted.

Neither of the works vehicles I drive have one fitted, despite them both being ones you'd expect to have them.

[wull]

There is no hard evidence that’s been given to suggest he was brake checked other than his own(van driver) words which of course he would say, he’s not going to own up to narrowing the gap through being pissed off.

Your counter argument of “where is the evidence that he didn’t brake check the van” is stupid.


Nobody is denying that they were riding like Fannie’s but the fact of the matter is what actually happened when the lead rider overtook the van and what proof is there to suggest what happened.

The issue here is having a preconception of what happened and looking for evidence to prove this, sometimes you find or look into something and have it say what you want it to say.

Take the end result out of the equation, look at the evidence and what does it tell you, then get your end result.

What do they have, a van driver that says “he brake checked me causing me to swerve to oncoming traffic” why didn’t he swerve to the nearside where there wouldn’t have been traffic, is that not the logical and instinctive thing to do, take yourself away from danger. Like I said I’m calling bullshit, I see it all the time drivers reducing gaps through being fucked off with the lead biker passing. Plus he’s a van driver probably an arsehole white van man who’s raging that he can’t make up time to deliver a shitty wee parcel to some cunt.