DCT or manual gear box?

[Asian Boss]

Any thoughts or experience?

I went to a bike shop today and was very taken with the Africa Twin Adv Sports 1000 (sorry for the false start on the X-Adv!).

I like the idea of the DCT transmission, but I'm not sure. And 10kgs extra doesn't sound good.

[Taff]

I test rode a DCT a while back and loved it.

If you do test ride one make sure you don't ride in D mode, it's rubbish and will have you in 5th at 30mph.

[Couchy]

Owned a manual but have ridden a DCT. If it’s just for tarmac I’d have a manual but if any off road I’d take the DCT as they are heavy so off road it’s one less thing to worry about. On the road the DCT was good but it isn’t always in the right gear as it can’t read the road or traffic conditions like we can.

[Bigyin]

Rode the DCT on an NC750 and hated it. Always seemed to be hunting for the gears and as Couchy says often in the wrong gear as we can assess what we need looking ahead whereas the bike just reacts to speed and revs

[Taipan]

I've had a couple of DCTs and like them, a lot. But, they are very different from a CVT. They aren't as smooth for a start and in some ways a CVT feels more responsive to throttle changes because you feel an instant reaction, but in reality, the DCT is probably using the torque of the engine as it does have direct drive.

Anyway, back to the comparison against a manual. What needs to be kept in mind is the DCT does have manual override up and downshift buttons. I use these a lot. So much so, I reset the transmission every couple of months. The DCT is adaptive and it remembers how you ride, so with me covering a lot of walking speed low throttle openings, my DCT will end up changing up far too early for open road use.

If you've driven a car with flappy paddles, you'll get the benefit of these manual buttons. You don't often need to fully crack open the throttle for a full-throttle "kick down", but hitting the thumb button and dropping a gear is quicker than waiting for the throttle position to do it for you. Don't think this means you might just as well have had a manual transmission, because it's different. It's how the DCT was designed to be used. It's the perfect bridge between manual and auto, the best of both worlds if you will? After a while of riding DCT this all becomes very fluid and an enjoyable way to ride. With respect, I'd not agree with Couchy and Big Yin's assessment, although I can see their point, but that's not how a DCT should be ridden. Rider input is still needed, hence why the +/- gearshift buttons are there.

My bike is the first of Hondas DCTs and they've improved the drive modes since then, but when I first got my DCT I couldn't work out the point of D mode and used S more all the time. Now I use a combo of both as I know how each responds and which is right for certain traffic conditions. D mode will be in 6th in every short space of time and distance and it initially appears ridiculously so. But with the NCX that's exactly what it was designed to do. It's how it gets its incredible economy. To counter this clunky and quick upshift, Honda gave the bike its S mode, which holds onto the gears much longer and makes throttle response much quicker. After a period of ownership, you'll find yourself using both and glad to have those options.

So, is a DCT better than manual? Both yes and no is the only answer of course. It's more a case of which would suit your riding better. It's a new technology and for many years bikes have been judged on quick they are, how well they stop and how well they bounce. With a move away from the Sportbike being the ultimate representation of the marque and the rise of the adventure bike and scooter, things are changing. I'd expect to see more DCT bikes being made available due to changing demand. If you can, get a long test ride on one and explore the different ride modes and use of the +/- gearchange modes. You may be pleasantly surprised, but you do need time to get used to one and learn how to use it to use its full ability which certainly isn't about just sticking it in D mode...

[Dodgy69]

I've never ridden one so don't really know anything , but with a clutch, you always have full control of drive. Horrible, dodgy hairpins where you need to slip the clutch or micro feed the power, your always in control, do these dcts achieve this same control.

[Bigyin]

In response to Tiepin i only rode the bike for a brief period and mainly in D mode but tried the up and downshift buttons. It just felt completely alien to me and possibly because of the "adaptive" aspect was in tune with how my colleague rides as it was his bike. Took me time to adapt to try slow speed manoeuvres such as a slalom, figure 8 and U turn which normally would have a busy rev setting and lots of clutch slip. On the DCT bike it was all about dragging the rear brake to keep the bike stable and slow enough. Having no clutch lever was also very unnerving but i know i would learn over time

[The Spin Doctor]

I've never ridden one so don't really know anything , but with a clutch, you always have full control of drive. Horrible, dodgy hairpins where you need to slip the clutch or micro feed the power, your always in control, do these dcts achieve this same control.

You use the rear brake. I spent a day riding a 2019 NC750X DCT round hairpins in the Santa Monica mountains and it was perfectly controllable.

Just as I would on a clutched bike.

[Dodgy69]

Fair point, but don't you think it's easier just to slip clutch. ? Maybe from a novice pov. I could include some other manoevers but I won't.

[Bigyin]

Fair point, but don't you think it's easier just to slip clutch. ? Maybe from a novice pov. I could include some other manoevers but I won't.

If you think about it for a novice its easier to only control a throttle and rear brake rather than a throttle, rear brake and a clutch.

When teaching kids on peds there is a point where you can get them to develop their riding beyond stop and go and put in the scenario where they have to go through a deep puddle so need to keep the throttle on ..... So how do they keep the speed down on an automatic, they drag the rear brake ....revs stay high to keep the exhaust clear of water but speed stays under control

As i said in my reply to Tiepin it was all about rear brake control on the NC750 i rode rather than clutch. After 35 years riding with a clutch for slow speed control it was something i really had to think about but for a novice they are a clean sheet and pretty much do as they are told as they dont have bad habits to fix

[the_priest]

I had a DCT bike for 3 years and it was a very good ride, especially in S mode. The larger engine on the Africa Twin will make a big difference to making it a lot more fun as well. The 700 was soft and made for a perfect commuter into and out of London, but not much else.

[The Spin Doctor]

Fair point, but don't you think it's easier just to slip clutch. ? Maybe from a novice pov. I could include some other manoevers but I won't.

It's a good idea to use the rear brake even if you ARE slipping the clutch. You just 'set' the clutch and throttle and use the rear brake to control the speed. Once you get used to it, it's a doddle.

It'll stop wheelspin if you hit something slippery... and then you won't pull the clutch in and topple over sideways as the bike stops dead. Would have saved me a couple of spills when I was a courier.

FWIW, I picked up the tip about the rear brake BEFORE I become a trainer, from a guy who raced in the Avon Roadrunner production series on a CB900F with a full race kit... he said the only way to stop the thing wheelspinning in the wet was to control the power through the rear brake. Heavy on rear pads but a lot easier on clutches.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Freddie Spencer said he used the rear brake to control wheel spin on his 500GP bike.

[Yorick]

I used the throttle to stop wheelspin

[The Spin Doctor]

Freddie Spencer said he used the rear brake to control wheel spin on his 500GP bike.

Which would have been about the same era... give or take a year or three.

[Taipan]

I had a DCT bike for 3 years and it was a very good ride, especially in S mode. The larger engine on the Africa Twin will make a big difference to making it a lot more fun as well. The 700 was soft and made for a perfect commuter into and out of London, but not much else.

Agreed. I like my NCX as a commuter, but not as a motorbike iyswim?

[Deadpool2]

I test rode a NC750 dct and had a great time on it, especially using the paddle shift. I would have prefered the foot gear lever as well.

I dont think the 10kg makes that much difference on the AT, its heavy anyway and the weight of the gearbox is on the bottom.

However, I do like using the clutch and a proper gear lever and am not ready to give them up. Riding bikes with quickshifters and autoblippers so you can changed down and up without the clutch is my preference atm.

I still feel like I am in control, the noise is addictive (especially on a 790 with a loud can) and I feel more in control at low speeds etc with the clutch.

Personally I would get a AT with the qs until I was ready to go full DCT.

[Scootabout]

The only auto I've ridden in the last 8 years was the electric Zero 7.2 FXE I tried a few weeks ago. I was wondering how well I'd adapt to it. Near instantly, as it happened. (And I loved it, apart from the price and the range.) But then again, I started off riding scoots and had to adapt to manuals, rather than vice versa.