revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Years ago, Foal fell of the 'monkey' bars at school, broke his arm.

I was torn between berating him for being 'stupid' and congratulating him for trying.

How about this for advice?

‘Play is great for children’s well-being and development. When planning and providing play opportunities, the goal is not to eliminate risk, but to weigh up the risks and benefits. No child will learn about risk if they are wrapped in cotton wool’

‘Those providing play opportunities should focus on controlling the real risks, while securing or increasing the benefits – not on the paperwork’.

‘Accidents and mistakes happen during play – but fear of litigation and prosecution has been blown out of proportion.’

You might be surprised by the source:

Health and Safety Executive (HSE)
Children’s Play and Leisure – Promoting a Balanced Approach
(2012)

Found here:
https://whatsthepont.blog/2021/04/22/wh ... resta-run/

Yep, cotton wool breeds ignorance.

That reads like it's taken from their BS1176 paper, if you fancy looking for the original source material

Google finds:
https://www.hse.gov.uk/entertainment/ch ... tement.htm

But you may well be right!

Real H&S experts usually understand risk. Self opinionated idiots (and lawyers) try to eliminate it.

I thought this was about Risk.

In my experience the HSE has a fairly pragmatic view of risk versus results, its only when you get flappy furkin managers and insurance companies involved that it goes full on bullshit Safety Elf.

I found this hilarious, Mrs M who works with children says that this one of the reasons why I shouldn't be allowed to care for children.....

demographic wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:48 pm In my experience the HSE has a fairly pragmatic view of risk versus results, its only when you get flappy furkin managers and insurance companies involved that it goes full on bullshit Safety Elf.

Our previous H&S chap used to be in the army. He reckoned that working at the roadside was more dangerous than his army job: bomb disposal

https://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/index.htm

eg
https://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/myth-bustin ... ctment.htm

Issue
A historical re-enactment society was told that there was a new regulation in place for chopping vegetables in a public place.

Panel decision
Historical re-enactment societies are normally volunteer run and enacted and will have duties under civil law not the Health and Safety at Work Act. There are no new health and safety regulations requiring tests for vegetable chopping and the risks to the public from participants chopping vegetables in public areas are so low that a test would be a completely over the top requirement. An application of common sense is clearly needed so that the re-enactment activities can proceed unhindered.

Horse wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:25 pm

demographic wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:48 pm In my experience the HSE has a fairly pragmatic view of risk versus results, its only when you get flappy furkin managers and insurance companies involved that it goes full on bullshit Safety Elf.

Our previous H&S chap used to be in the army. He reckoned that working at the roadside was more dangerous than his army job: bomb disposal

For yonks I thought the stats showed that builders had a greater chance of being killed at work (to be fair, often cos they were being an eejit) than UK soldiers did, not sure if that changed when we entered Afghanistan, anyone?

demographic wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:35 pm

Horse wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:25 pm

demographic wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:48 pm In my experience the HSE has a fairly pragmatic view of risk versus results, its only when you get flappy furkin managers and insurance companies involved that it goes full on bullshit Safety Elf.

Our previous H&S chap used to be in the army. He reckoned that working at the roadside was more dangerous than his army job: bomb disposal

For yonks I thought the stats showed that builders had a greater chance of being killed at work (to be fair, often cos they were being an eejit) than UK soldiers did, not sure if that changed when we entered Afghanistan, anyone?

I seem to recall stats that showed returning squaddies were at high risk of road crashes.

Here, for example: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp

Asian Boss wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:38 pm I thought this was about Risk.

So did I

My ability to win a game was seriously inhibited by narcolepsy (picture 1995ish).

RiskNights by Trinity 765, on Flickr

Times change, playgrounds of my yoof weren't quite as extreme as this but there was certainly enough rusty metal to cut yourself on, rock hard ground to fall on, and hunks of timber to crush limbs and fingers. (The 'witches hat' was always a good one to throw you off, squash you or belt you in the head if you weren't paying attention)

There were often cuts and broken arms, I dunno if that's educational. Certainly I'm rarely bothered by minor injuries whereas the missus is convinced I'm about to die

2021-06-08_11-31-35 by Steve Weeks, on Flickr

I'm saying nothing

DefTrap wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:01 am Times change, playgrounds of my yoof weren't quite as extreme as this but there was certainly enough rusty metal to cut yourself on, rock hard ground to fall on, and hunks of timber to crush limbs

I recall frequenting an 'adventure' playground with death slides and an old helicopter fuselage. We'd light fires around the place too.

I grew up riding horses, racing my brother on pushbikes, building forts from hay bales in barns, sailing dinghies and generally being allowed to fall and mess about as much as we liked. No idea how as my mother really isn't the sort to be happy about that, although she would prefer I had ridden horses as an adult than motorbikes, so maybe she is more weird than even I realised!!

We had an old barn on the farm, I think it had been a dutch barn, with the domed roof. When we moved there there was no roof and the inside had loads of remnants/rubble around. But, didn't stop us racing each other around the walls - the inner walls were narrow and domed and the outer were probably 10 inches wide, but at least they were flat! So from the age of about 6 - probably 10 (when I broke my back in a horse riding incident!) we all hooned around those walls like loonies. Jumping across what had been doorways on the inner walls and from the inner to outer walls and back across the 'corridor'.

Totally nuts and I know that at least me and my brother fell a few times. But we just carried on. How I didn't end up with more than scabby knees and the compressed L1 I'll never know!!! But apart from the odd finger, I didn't break another bone till L2 when I was 27 and then my shoulder!!!

So, I reckon the risk training worked quite well??!! LOL

demographic wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:35 pm

Horse wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:25 pm

demographic wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:48 pm In my experience the HSE has a fairly pragmatic view of risk versus results, its only when you get flappy furkin managers and insurance companies involved that it goes full on bullshit Safety Elf.

Our previous H&S chap used to be in the army. He reckoned that working at the roadside was more dangerous than his army job: bomb disposal

For yonks I thought the stats showed that builders had a greater chance of being killed at work (to be fair, often cos they were being an eejit) than UK soldiers did, not sure if that changed when we entered Afghanistan, anyone?

Farming and deep sea fishing are high risk too?

demographic wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:35 pmoften cos they were being an eejit

slowsider wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:09 pm

demographic wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:35 pm

Horse wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:25 pm

Our previous H&S chap used to be in the army. He reckoned that working at the roadside was more dangerous than his army job: bomb disposal

For yonks I thought the stats showed that builders had a greater chance of being killed at work (to be fair, often cos they were being an eejit) than UK soldiers did, not sure if that changed when we entered Afghanistan, anyone?

I seem to recall stats that showed returning squaddies were at high risk of road crashes.

Here, for example: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp

Dunno about cars but from what I heard some squaddies used to bribe the bike tester in Cyprus so they passed their bike test over there.
Then not really able to ride properly when then bought a Fireblade/whatever.