revtothelimit - motorbike forum

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/97948 ... ogp-season

He's been promoted within KTM and that's the way they work.

Wonder if Lowes will get a MotoGP ride? I know Dorna want a Brit on the grid, so it's either him or Jake Dixon.

Good move for all parties concerned, I reckon.

As to the Brit on the grid, good question, but both candidates could be seen as "damaged goods" at the moment what with Sam's current inability to finish races and Jake's mojo seeming to have gone walkabout since his accident.

I'd expect Wayne's wean to do well in the big class and the KTM is a good bike,getting better.

Sam is having a rough time,but I'd expect him to get a ride before Jake Dixon.

So who gets the flick to make way for Remy, Petrucci or Lecuona ...... neither has set the world alight but i think Danilo better start looking for a WSBK seat for 2022

Bigyin wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:31 pm So who gets the flick to make way for Remy, Petrucci or Lecuona ...... neither has set the world alight but i think Danilo better start looking for a WSBK seat for 2022

During the weekend, I think it was Hodgy who suggested Petruc could be going to WSB.

Bigyin wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:31 pm So who gets the flick to make way for Remy, Petrucci or Lecuona ...... neither has set the world alight but i think Danilo better start looking for a WSBK seat for 2022

Both will be replaced at the end of the season I suspect. Lecuona was as bizarre a choice as Salvadori was for Aprilia and it's an experiment that hasn't worked. Petrucci has done ok but isn't the class that they need.

2xtwins wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:39 pm As to the Brit on the grid, good question, but both candidates could be seen as "damaged goods" at the moment what with Sam's current inability to finish races and Jake's mojo seeming to have gone walkabout since his accident.

I thought it seemed quite likely that Redding could make a return as the brit on the grid, presuming that does well enough in WSB. Would be nice for Lowes to have a chance on a decent bike though.

Petrux opens up.....

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/97954 ... nly-target

Numnut wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:25 pm

2xtwins wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:39 pm As to the Brit on the grid, good question, but both candidates could be seen as "damaged goods" at the moment what with Sam's current inability to finish races and Jake's mojo seeming to have gone walkabout since his accident.

I thought it seemed quite likely that Redding could make a return as the brit on the grid, presuming that does well enough in WSB. Would be nice for Lowes to have a chance on a decent bike though.

Of the 2 I'd have Redding over Lowes.

Supermofo wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:02 am

Numnut wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:25 pm

2xtwins wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:39 pm As to the Brit on the grid, good question, but both candidates could be seen as "damaged goods" at the moment what with Sam's current inability to finish races and Jake's mojo seeming to have gone walkabout since his accident.

I thought it seemed quite likely that Redding could make a return as the brit on the grid, presuming that does well enough in WSB. Would be nice for Lowes to have a chance on a decent bike though.

Of the 2 I'd have Redding over Lowes.

I'd have neither. Neither are good enough, or young enough. The Brits need to completely reconsider their plans in terms of the big circus.

weeksy wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:04 am I'd have neither. Neither are good enough, or young enough. The Brits need to completely reconsider their plans in terms of the big circus.

Yup me neither. It's only if I had to choose 1 and it had to be a Brit. There are better riders on the grid and it should be talent over country. I'd love there to be a fast Brit but there isn't. Rea I reckon might have been good enough but wasn't given the chance which is a shame.

Saying that I'd never have picked Fabio either so what do I know!

weeksy wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:04 am

Supermofo wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:02 am

Numnut wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:25 pm

I thought it seemed quite likely that Redding could make a return as the brit on the grid, presuming that does well enough in WSB. Would be nice for Lowes to have a chance on a decent bike though.

Of the 2 I'd have Redding over Lowes.

I'd have neither. Neither are good enough, or young enough. The Brits need to completely reconsider their plans in terms of the big circus.

I agree. But we have no other top options.
Rea is great, but likes being a big fish in a small pond like Fogarty.

Spain has dozens of folk queuing to get into Moto3.

Not quite the same in UK.

Not many since Bradders, Scotty and Crutchlow

To me (and I imagine I'll get some flak for this) it's all part of the Little Englander/English exceptionalism thing. Instead of looking at the way that other countries manage developing talent and adopting the methods and learning from it, we just plough on with our comfortable insular ways, regarding BSB as the pinnacle instead of admitting it's pretty small beer and no way to prepare young riders for Moto3/Moto2/MotoGP.

Sorry to get political, but this attitude is manifested most obviously in Brexit. Instead of embracing the wider world and the opportunities it offers, we prefer to retreat into some imaginary state of mind when Britain ruled the world and everything was Land of Hope and Glory. Except it never existed and this pipe dream has absolutely no relevance to today's world.

British motor cycle racing is just a symptom of a much wider malaise, and one that I see no easy fix for. It doesn't help that in the UK motorcyclists are generally viewed as 3rd class citizens, whereas in France, Spain, Italy etc. motorcycling is embedded in the culture. Any UK rider who makes it to the elite levels of world motorcycling has had an absolute mountain to climb to get there; far more so than any Continental riders.

That Mango dude is a wise msn

mangocrazy wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:48 pm To me (and I imagine I'll get some flak for this) it's all part of the Little Englander/English exceptionalism thing. Instead of looking at the way that other countries manage developing talent and adopting the methods and learning from it, we just plough on with our comfortable insular ways, regarding BSB as the pinnacle instead of admitting it's pretty small beer and no way to prepare young riders for Moto3/Moto2/MotoGP.

Sorry to get political, but this attitude is manifested most obviously in Brexit. Instead of embracing the wider world and the opportunities it offers, we prefer to retreat into some imaginary state of mind when Britain ruled the world and everything was Land of Hope and Glory. Except it never existed and this pipe dream has absolutely no relevance to today's world.

British motor cycle racing is just a symptom of a much wider malaise, and one that I see no easy fix for. It doesn't help that in the UK motorcyclists are generally viewed as 3rd class citizens, whereas in France, Spain, Italy etc. motorcycling is embedded in the culture. Any UK rider who makes it to the elite levels of world motorcycling has had an absolute mountain to climb to get there; far more so than any Continental riders.

But there's no divine right that we should make motoGP champions, why should we ? It's a very small niche field of sport and with very few people watching it. But is there's a bit of a catch 22 here, where more would watch it if we were better ? In honesty i doubt it. So where is the incentive for people to invest ? You can't expect people to throw countless funds at a rider/racer without any return on their investment

British motorcycle racing is in full strength, you see it week in week out at national, local and BSB level. However the problem comes that 2 things need to fall into place. 1. Higher levels of sponsorship for the riders. 2. a class that suits in terms of stepping up to the GP paddock.
We in the UK don't allow our youngsters to go racing at an early age in the same way as other countries, or we certainly don't encourage it in the same way at least. So by the time our kids get to race at a decent level, the Spaniards have been doing it for 5,6,7 years already.

But point 2 above is the bigger issue, our "must be 1000cc" desire and goals. But who's fault is that ? the ACU ? OR society itself ? The young Spanish want to jump on GP Reps... we want to jump on WSB reps, so it's no great shock our superstars are all in WSB is it ?

weeksy wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:59 am But there's no divine right that we should make motoGP champions, why should we ? It's a very small niche field of sport and with very few people watching it. But is there's a bit of a catch 22 here, where more would watch it if we were better ? In honesty i doubt it. So where is the incentive for people to invest ? You can't expect people to throw countless funds at a rider/racer without any return on their investment

That was (to a degree) my point. There is an expectation that we should be able to produce world champions and in WSB we have. But you have to go back over 40 years to Barry Sheene's day to find a British GP level champion. We were ruling the roost in the 50s and 60s, there was a conveyor belt of British GP champions; Geoff Duke, John Surtees, Mike Hailwood, Phil Read, Bill Ivy, but then it all dried up. It may be that as the sport got wealthier/more expensive that we fell behind in financially supporting UK riders and without the finance they simply can't compete.

weeksy wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:59 am British motorcycle racing is in full strength, you see it week in week out at national, local and BSB level. However the problem comes that 2 things need to fall into place. 1. Higher levels of sponsorship for the riders. 2. a class that suits in terms of stepping up to the GP paddock.

Racing in the UK is competitive, but only within its own very tightly defined scope. As soon as UK riders move to the world stage (GPs) they struggle for the most part. Cal is the only UK rider in recent times that's even won a handful of races in MotoGP. In the UK we simply don't equip our riders for the level and type of competition they will face in GPs. And that is down to racing in the UK being almost completely inward-looking, which was my main point. We should be copying the Spanish system, as that appears to be the most successful. All of UK racing is geared towards BSB and thereby WSB. We've effectively given up on GP racing, or at least the ACU seems to have. Where are the feeder classes and the links to European competition? If UK riders want to win on the world stage they need to be competing with their Euro and world counterparts at the earliest possible age so that they can raise their game to those levels.

weeksy wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:59 amWe in the UK don't allow our youngsters to go racing at an early age in the same way as other countries, or we certainly don't encourage it in the same way at least. So by the time our kids get to race at a decent level, the Spaniards have been doing it for 5,6,7 years already.

Completely agree. And for that reason alone we will always be on the back foot compared to our European counterparts. And my concern is this this situation will only get worse, the more we generally distance ourselves from Europe.

weeksy wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:59 amBut point 2 above is the bigger issue, our "must be 1000cc" desire and goals. But who's fault is that ? the ACU ? OR society itself ? The young Spanish want to jump on GP Reps... we want to jump on WSB reps, so it's no great shock our superstars are all in WSB is it ?

It's all a bit chicken and egg. Kids want role models and the ones they have in motorcycle racing are for the most part either in domestic competition or WSB. And the ACU really don't help. They've been a backward-looking, self-serving organisation for as long as I can remember. Just the name (Auto Cycle Union) tells you all you need to know about their relevance to modern racing. And the loss of free to air GP racing has also had an effect, I think.

In Spain/Italy Marc, Mir, Lorenzo, Rossi etc are life sized cardboard cut outs advertising crisps and drinks in supermarkets, they are on TV and papers they are stars. In the UK motorcyclists are nobodies.

That drives 3 year olds onto bikes in Spain/Italy, along with everyone from 14 year olds to 80 year olds using 2 wheels to get about on a daily basis. In the UK motorcyclists are in general grumpy old men in a massive minority.

We could look to promoting Moto 3/Moto2 as the feeder classes in the UK but then what's the pinnacle you won't get GP bikes in the UK.

As far as I can see if you want to get into GPs you need to move to Spain/Italy. It's not just the UK, look at the US, Germany, Holland etc etc. Spain and Italy is where the money is and surprise surprise all the best riders come from there.

Supermofo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:47 am
That drives 3 year olds onto bikes in Spain/Italy, along with everyone from 14 year olds to 80 year olds using 2 wheels to get about on a daily basis. In the UK motorcyclists are in general grumpy old men in a massive minority.

We could look to promoting Moto 3/Moto2 as the feeder classes in the UK but then what's the pinnacle you won't get GP bikes in the UK.

1. Is a lot of that climate based though too ?

2. There's no GP class in Spain, there's no GP class anywhere, they have the Moto3/Red Bull rookies, but there's not really even a 675 class for them anywhere, there's only the small guys class as a feeder class, that's all it takes in the UK

At Castle Combe last weekend there were 10+ classes, but only one of them was compatible with Moto3 bikes (which was flying actually), all they need is a dedicated 300/390/400 series to start with, that'll get the youngsters playing.

Two of the biggest Brit names went to Spain as juniors to race in the 125 class before getting their advance into the MotoGP paddock and working through the classes.

The other went through a route that virtually no-one has done before or since - but it has been tried (and Aprilia are flogging it to death with their second bike at the moment). Sam Lowes very nearly became the next to make that breakthrough but to date it's really only Crutchlow and Petrucci that have made it work.

That tells you a lot about how the British racing structure is and how it's regarded by the teams and manufacturers when looking for talent.

John McPhee came through 125s in the UK and got lucky being talent spotted by KRP and put onto the world stage a season later.

There are a lot of parallels between the UK and the USA.

There has been a dearth of US Motogp champs similar to that of the UK. Some of this may be down to the insular nature of Americans,where despite the good weather Motogp is way down the list of their popular sports. I remember when Kenny Roberts junior was GP champ in 2000,his next door neighbour had no idea at all he was a famous racer. National sport is where it's at.

The UK has become similar in many ways,BSB has become a well paying job (if you are good enough) so there will always be the temptation to look a gift horse in the mouth and not rock the boat.