Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

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wheelnut
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by wheelnut »

Yambo wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:46 am [
You miss the point but that's my fault really for not explaining that you could produce a LFT to go into a pub or you can produce a vaccination certificate. It was the same for me getting on a plane at Heathrow a week or so ago. The LFT says at the time of the test, maybe 20 minutes ago, you were covid negative but the vaccination certificate doesn't say anything about your covid status. You could be carrying every different strain of the virus and even ones they haven't detected yet but you're OK cos you've been jabbed.

It's a load of bollox.
Current thinking is that being fully jabbed prevents transmission by about 30% so when you extrapolate that up to include onward cases it’s still probably worthwhile.

That said, I think most of the value in getting people to produce their status is in using it as a lever to get people jabbed.
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by Bwana »

Yambo wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:46 am

You miss the point

Not really. You did read my entire comment, didn't you? If I'm going to be exposing a vulnerable someone to my filthy self I'm going to get a test before doing so. That and I still wear a mask and I still avoid people as much as possible.

There's setting an example, and there's being holier than thou. I try to have level headed discussions with clients (the ones that seem blind to the signage requiring masks on the premises) - occasionally I run into them in public and I want them to see that I'm practicing what I preach.
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

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:thumbup:



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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by DefTrap »

Yambo wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:55 am
Ten minutes I won't get back then.

Shame that he doesn't really have any conclusion other than to constantly "suggest" there's some sort of conspiracy.
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by Mussels »

An exercise in asking a very specific question to get the answer you want and then pretend it's the answer to a more general question.
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by irie »

DefTrap wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:15 am
Ten minutes I won't get back then.

Shame that he doesn't really have any conclusion other than to constantly "suggest" there's some sort of conspiracy.
Ten minutes I've saved, thanks. :thumbup:
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by Docca »

That video is utter horseshit. What’s his black belt in? Tinfoil? What a throbber.


In other news I’m still covid. Day 4 and I can tell you even triple jabbed this is fucked. I now have 2 more kids with Covid at home. Thankfully they only have mild symptoms (temp and cough)

I have completely lost my sense of smell and taste. Like nada. This has made picking ups dog turds from the garden a lot easier.
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by Docca »

Also, I we probably need to recognise the proportion of our population who have ‘pre-existing conditions’.
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

Baby D has just finished her week's quarantine and is free to return to school following 2 negative LFTs. Ditto on Mrs. D with two negatives.

My Day 5 LFT was actually a much stronger positive result than my day 0 :lol: I must've caught it on the upswing so to speak. I've run out of tests now, waiting for more to arrive.

To be totally honest, if this was 2019 I would've just said I have a mild/mid level cold and I would've still carried on as normal. Still got full taste/smell, not really had a temperature, not really coughing, just quite snotty. I'm triple jabbed so presumably that's knocked it back a bit. Mrs. D on the other hand still hasn't got her sense of smell back from her first round 6 months ago.
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by DefTrap »

Docca wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:06 pm Also, I we probably need to recognise the proportion of our population who have ‘pre-existing conditions’.
It's a minefield I imagine. I'm over 50 and have a achy neck, I imagine that puts me on the list of "Don't care, probably should be dead by now."
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by Count Steer »

Docca wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:59 am That video is utter horseshit. What’s his black belt in? Tinfoil? What a throbber.
He's not a black belt in statistics. He's linked one data set (excess deaths) with another and interpreted it how he wants to see it. Just goes to show, if you want to believe something, there's someone out there with a camera and internet access that will tell you what you want to hear.

The excess deaths is an interesting stat. They're higher than predicted ie excess. Presumably, fewer people than expected (possibly also with pre-existing conditions and/or over 65) died with flu during periods of lock-down/isolation/social distancing - suppressing the number of expected deaths. So the figure is actually worse than it appears to be...unless you think only previously healthy people that die with Covid should count as Covid related. In which case, flu doesn't kill many people either...they probably die of ingrowing toenails or something. :roll:
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by Yambo »

Mussels wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:58 am An exercise in asking a very specific question to get the answer you want and then pretend it's the answer to a more general question.

Indeed. I think that if you are going to ask questions of the Office of National Statistics under the Freedom of Information Act it is probably wise to ask for specifics cos if you ask a general question, you're going to get a general answer. It was therefore a good exercise in getting the answer you want - in this instance, 'Please supply how many people have died from covid-19 alone with no underlying health issues, from November 2019 to December 2021.'

Now, I have no idea what this guy has a black belt in (note, I personally have a black belt), whether he's actually a barrister or whether he's a conspiracy theorist or not and I couldn't give a shit either. What I am interested in though is the answer to the question asked of the Office of National Statistics: 'Please supply how many people have died from covid-19 alone with no underlying health issues, from November 2019 to December 2021.' because for 18 months or more I've been asking the same question. I wanted to know how dangerous covid actually was.

If a death is recorded as a covid death when it occurs within 28 days of a positive covid test it may make the numbers look good (or bad) for the government who, lets face it are trying to sell a product and protect the fantastic NHS but it's not exactly a true reflection of the severity of covid 19. Your opinion may differ of course and that's fine. If you want to believe what the government tells you, in general terms, then believe it.

However, the specific question asked has a specific answer and it would appear that only 9400 people with no pre-existing conditions died from covid alone in 2020 and only 7971, again with no pre-existing conditions died in the first 3 quarters of 2021. When you compare this to the scientific projections of covid deaths (half a million?) then you have to say the actual deaths from covid falls woefully short. If you bear in mind that around 6000 people a year die from pancreatic cancer (for which there is currently no cure and no vaccine) and around 75,000 people die every year from smoking related diseases covid isn't very special. Of course, it killed a lot of people with underlying health issues and pre-existing conditions which made them vulnerable but that simply underlines the fact that if you keep yourself healthy, covid should not be a big issue - mortality wise.

It's also interesting for me to see your reactions to the video - conspiracy theory! black belt in anything but statistics! not a statistician, a load of bollocks etc which is to be expected when you are all experts at everything so it should be enough to shoot the messenger. As I said before I don't give a shit about the messenger but I was interested in the answer to the question he's bringing to peoples' attention. Some of you clearly don't give a shit about that - and that too is fine but you could do me a favour and tell me whether I should believe the answer from the Office of National Statistics to the question asked and if I shouldn't believe it, what number of people died from covid alone is the right one to believe. :thumbup:
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by Mussels »

I don't think the ONS set out to deceive him, his question is more complicated than he thinks. They need to be careful to answer the question accurately as they know they will be quoted but they only have a best guess, FOI doesn't require people to make guesses, just release the info they have.
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by wheelnut »

But……lots of people do have underlying health conditions and they will still occupy an icu bed.

The amount of deaths really isn’t the issue that the government are concerned with, it could be 5 times the amount that it is and they wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

The issue with covid, and I don’t know why people struggle to grasp this, is the speed and ferocity it had the potential to totally overwhelm available health resources.

Having people choke in their lungs in hospital car parks because there’s no resources to access doesn’t look good on news at 10. It had the potential to lead to a fairly swift breakdown of society.

In the early-ish days it wasn’t that far away from happening,
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by gremlin »

wheelnut wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:47 pm

In the early-ish days it wasn’t that far away from happening,
And there was me thinking it was just a shortage of bog roll and G&Ts in the garden at 10.30am...
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

wheelnut wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:47 pm But……lots of people do have underlying health conditions and they will still occupy an icu bed.

The amount of deaths really isn’t the issue that the government are concerned with, it could be 5 times the amount that it is and they wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

The issue with covid, and I don’t know why people struggle to grasp this, is the speed and ferocity it had the potential to totally overwhelm available health resources.

Having people choke in their lungs in hospital car parks because there’s no resources to access doesn’t look good on news at 10. It had the potential to lead to a fairly swift breakdown of society.

In the early-ish days it wasn’t that far away from happening,
Its also why Irie's "anti vaxxers will just have to take their chances" argument misses some rather key points out.

I'm fully vaccinated but if I have a car accident I don't want to be kept out of ICU by all the Covid victims.
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by DefTrap »

Yambo wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:40 pm
It's also interesting for me to see your reactions to the video - conspiracy theory! black belt in anything but statistics! not a statistician, a load of bollocks etc which is to be expected when you are all experts at everything so it should be enough to shoot the messenger. As I said before I don't give a shit about the messenger but I was interested in the answer to the question he's bringing to peoples' attention. Some of you clearly don't give a shit about that - and that too is fine but you could do me a favour and tell me whether I should believe the answer from the Office of National Statistics to the question asked and if I shouldn't believe it, what number of people died from covid alone is the right one to believe. :thumbup:
Are you telling us were being lied to? Or you just one of those who likes to ask open questions and then stand there waiting for fury?

In these cases it's often just easier to ask why?
Why is there a cover up?
What's in it for the interested parties?
Why are there so few of them prepared to break the silence?
Why is literally the whole world of numerous left, right and couldntgiveafuck oriented governments all ploughing the same path.
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by irie »

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:30 pm
wheelnut wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:47 pm But……lots of people do have underlying health conditions and they will still occupy an icu bed.

The amount of deaths really isn’t the issue that the government are concerned with, it could be 5 times the amount that it is and they wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

The issue with covid, and I don’t know why people struggle to grasp this, is the speed and ferocity it had the potential to totally overwhelm available health resources.

Having people choke in their lungs in hospital car parks because there’s no resources to access doesn’t look good on news at 10. It had the potential to lead to a fairly swift breakdown of society.

In the early-ish days it wasn’t that far away from happening,
Its also why Irie's "anti vaxxers will just have to take their chances" argument misses some rather key points out.

I'm fully vaccinated but if I have a car accident I don't want to be kept out of ICU by all the Covid victims.
Of course what I said "misses some rather key points out", but what I said is the key issue.

Consider this: if one of your children had an accident and required ICU treatment but ICU beds critical to their recovery were blocked by anti-vaxxers who had voluntarily avoided vaccination which would have obviated their need for ICU beds, how would you feel about this?

Such choices are made every day when resource are critical.
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Re: Covid conspiracies / rants/ BS

Post by Yambo »

DefTrap wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:40 pm
Are you telling us were being lied to? Or you just one of those who likes to ask open questions and then stand there waiting for fury?
I'm not telling you anything, that's not the way I roll. 🙂 I certainly lean towards asking questions but of course I run the risk of being told I'm asking the wrong question. I'm well aware though that in that situation I'm actually asking a question you don't want to answer. I don't know why you don't want to think about any possible answer but that doesn't make the question wrong.
DefTrap wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:40 pm In these cases it's often just easier to ask why?
Why is there a cover up?
What's in it for the interested parties?
Why are there so few of them prepared to break the silence?
Why is literally the whole world of numerous left, right and couldntgiveafuck oriented governments all ploughing the same path.
All perfectly legitimate questions. Do you want me to answer them?