That’s not a knife...

[Silly Car]

For years (around 20+), I’ve been using a set of IKEA knives which I’ve kept sharp in later years with the Lansky system. They have been shoved in the dishwasher daily for years, the scales are shot pot pieces and falling off, a few years ago demographic sent me some cherry to make new ones which I’ve never done.

They are very well balanced, take abuse and hone up well. Only other additions in regular use have been a “Sabatier” which is lovely but I cannot remember where the hell it came from and a couple of years ago, a Zelite 8” chef knife. The ex did buy me an Anthony Worrell Thompson set a number of years ago which I never got on with, except the carving knife which is great for the Christmas ham and smoked salmon.

Gandy wanted ideas for my birthday this year so I created a wish list on Amazon for a full set of Zelite I would use and waited to unwrap them... little did I know, she told all of the family to ignore that list as she’d cooked up a plan to buy me some Kin kinchef knives having seen me coo over James Martin’s set and chopping board pretty much every Saturday morning, we had also seen them at a Good Food show some years ago.

12F871D2-4D85-444D-AC87-139B3AE5DF2B.jpeg (382.92 KiB) Viewed 2251 times

160mm Boning knife
150mm Petty
175mm Santuko
210mm Gyuto.

The board is from Kin wood boards, Zak there is married to the owner of Kin knives in the UK. Gandy says he was really helpful in terms of helping with everything.

[Skub]

Cool choppers. And you've had them for 20 years you say?

Happy 70th dude.

[weeksy]

Very nice. I like knives!

[Mr. Dazzle]

I have precisely one good knife. I was originally planning for it to be the first of many, but honestly I've yet to come across the need for more!



It's an 8" Global Ukon. AFAIK Global don't sell their Ukon range in the UK, its their supposedly pro version. My Mum got in for me in a catering store (Williams Sonoma - basically John Lewis for foodies) in San Francisco

I've just this moment put it down for the pic.

[weeksy]

https://www.kitchenknives.co.uk/global- ... S8EALw_wcB

Seem to be able to now.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Thats the regular Global range. Look at where the dots are on the handle.



What the actual difference with the Ukon is I'm not sure. I think its just the handle shape, which is designed to work better with chef style "pinch grip".

Indecently I would encourage everyone to switch to using that grip, once you do and you get used to it you'll never go back.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Here you go, pinch grip vs. hammer.




Hammer grip is on the left, it's what most people (me included) do intuitively. Pinch grip on the right is how chefs are taught to do it...its way better once you get over the fear of slicing your finger tips off under the blade

[Noggin]

What an awesome set of knives!! That's a fabulous gift!

Here you go, pinch grip vs. hammer.

Hammer grip is on the left, it's what most people (me included) do intuitively. Pinch grip on the right is how chefs are taught to do it...its way better once you get over the fear of slicing your finger tips off under the blade

I did a catering course a million years ago and was taught to hold the knife in a pinch grip! I've never even thought about it since then as didn't go further into 'cheffing'!!

The only thing I'm conscious of is occasionally when I put my finger over the top of the knife (middle pick) I can hear the tutor saying DON'T DO THAT!!! LOL

I used to have a couple of fab knives but couldn't sharpen them (never did learn to use a steel!). My RDad bought me a set of knives before he died and I've used those since. Don't think they are hugely expensive and probably not the best ones I've used - but since I haven't cooked a lot since I got them, and they are pretty well balanced, I'll not change them for a while yet

[demographic]

I have a Global GS-2 that a girlfriend of the time kindly bought me about 26 or 27 years ago, it was called a slicer and started out without a real point. Over the years with many sharpenings (usually on a diamond hone then stropped) and its got a bit of a point now.
It's been a good knife all these years. I can't remember the details now, does the Icon range have a bit of cobalt in the blades? Mines not that range, its from the Global Classic range.
Here it is, alongside my Ryusen Bonten Unryu* Santuko which is indeed made out of fairies wings (its actually more of a pattern welded laminate VG-10 steel) beaten into a blade shape. My wife bought me that one





*Pretty sure thats the make anyway. Deffo Ryusen Santuko and it looks like one of those.

Oh and yes, I am a knife ponce. Wait til we get onto penknives. What can I say, I grew up mostly in the country and we all had knife collections back then. I claim not to have a collection now but thats just cos I don't want other people to realise what an anorak I really am about it.

[Mr. Dazzle]

The thing i like about Global - and this probably goes against every knife nerds instinct - is that they have no pretensions about laminated this and grained that!

I have no issues with people who like that stuff, but in the 21st century it just ain't needed. All the folding and hammering was to get around the fact the raw steel wasn't very good.

I suspect demo knows that as well as anyone TBF

[demographic]

The thing i like about Global - and this probably goes against every knife nerds instinct - is that they have no pretensions about laminated this and grained that!

I have no issues with people who like that stuff, but in the 21st century it just ain't needed. All the folding and hammering was to get around the fact the raw steel wasn't very good.

I suspect demo knows that as well as anyone TBF

Oh hell yes.
Its not really needed and a large part of the folding process was to make the steel more homogeneous.
The Japanese had this fancy sword making steel they called Tahamagane ( IIRC) and in the West we developed something with a very similar carbon content... we called it Pig Iron.

It actually needed less carbon to make an effective blade.
They could either reduce or increase carbon content depending on where in the forge they heated the blade and part of the folding made the steel more homogenous.
Then they used harder steels for the edge (not always the sandwiched way everyone thinks either) and more flexible steels for the blade sides and or spine. That with a differential heat treatment made for something that could bend a bit and still had a fully hard edge that could be sharpened well.

Everyone tosses off about Samurai swords (always a fucking Katana as well) and makes out Western swords were shite. Not really true and even some Viking swords were very well made pattern welded blades.

Having said all that^ the Santuko I have does have a much harder edge and holds it better than the Global knife I have and some laminated knives still make good use of a hard edge steel and softer more flexible sides.

Fallkniven being a good example of that idea done well IMO.

[DEADPOOL]

I have precisely one good knife. I was originally planning for it to be the first of many, but honestly I've yet to come across the need for more!

Same here. Same knife.

I have heard a lot of good stories about those Ikea blades though so if I ever feel the need for a set, they are high on the list.

[DEADPOOL]

The Japanese had this fancy sword making steel they called Tahamagane ( IIRC) and in the West we developed something with a very similar carbon content... we called it Pig Iron.

That is a little unfair. It is of course merely a type of steel but Tamahagane is an exotic alloy made with a process developed over centuries (?) after which the raw stock is sub selected by venerated sword makers who really knew their thing.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Yeah but all they're actually doing is selecting the right chemical composition and then achieving a desired grain structure, crystal type etc....which is what modern mill made steels have anyway.

Controlling the carbon content, heat treating etc. is all known and understood now innit? Coupled with the fact industrial processes can do things swordsmiths can't....vacuum melting for example.

Essentially what was once an art is now a science.

[demographic]

From tinternet. I got the spelling arse about face mind.

"Most iron deposits in Japan contain ore with very high carbon content. This iron was called Tamahagane or pig iron. As this steel contains 4-5% of carbon it is unsuitable for blade forging. This carbon content would make every sword break extremely easily."

Thats where the swordsmiths did a hell of a lot of work to reduce the carbon content of their Tamahagane and yeah I do realise thats a vast simplification of the process they used. Its also a fair derail of SC's thread about his really nice new knives and I've waffled on enough.

[DEADPOOL]

Yeah but all they're actually doing is selecting the right chemical composition and then achieving a desired grain structure, crystal type etc....which is what modern mill made steels have anyway.

Controlling the carbon content, heat treating etc. is all known and understood now innit? Coupled with the fact industrial processes can do things swordsmiths can't....vacuum melting for example.

Essentially what was once an art is now a science.

Yes all true of course but that's like saying a Ming vase is nowhere near as "good" as a modern mass produced pot. You could easily make that argument and you would also be right.

But to refer to Tamahagane as "pig iron" is disingenuous. It is the raw material used in an evolved steel making process from centuries ago and sub selected by some lifelong sword maker who knew exactly what to look for.

I am not sure (but willing to be put right) that even the early (Wootz) Damascus steels cannot be replicated today (pattern welded "Damascus" is NOT the same thing). ISTR recall these ancient steels exhibit carbon nanotubes in their composition though it's probably better if you were to investigate that (it's beyond my experience and knowledge of materials science).

My guess is there are certain regions where particular sands or clays must have just the right concentrations of exotic metals like boron, molybdenum etc. which were discovered empirically to make the best blades of the day.

[demographic]

IIRC carbon nanotubes have been found in some wood soot.
Dunno how much or how long they were but I read something about it a while ago.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Carbon nanotubes will be the technology that ultimately allows solid state nuclear fusion to take off

[demographic]

Carbon nanotubes will be the technology that ultimately allows solid state nuclear fusion to take off

In twenty years.
Ahem.

To be fair I think the whole self sustaining nuclear fusion thing has come on a good amount recently and its into the tens of seconds now?

As have solid state "batteries" but I get yer point.

[DEADPOOL]

IIRC carbon nanotubes have been found in some wood soot.
Dunno how much or how long they were but I read something about it a while ago.

Ain't nature grand. Interestingly those ancient swords were typically forged while coated in burnt straw and or clay. The forging is also largely performed in a strongly reducing basket of charcoal rather than coke or coal (in Japanese swordmaking).

The subtleties of these slightly differing processes can produce wildly differing results when you consider the aim is largely to reduce the amount of carbon to around 1%. Using an experienced eye (somehow). Plus many exotic steel alloys have vanishingly small amounts of <other metal> alloys which also lead to extraordinarily differing properties.

Carbon nanotubes will be the technology that ultimately allows solid state nuclear fusion to take off

Easier to jump into a time machine and pop into the far future (lets say a couple of hundred years if humanity can survive that long), pop back and hope we're not really in a "many worlds" universe.

Before we see fusion we need to fix SARS-COV2, dodge an asteroid, stop China taking over the world and fix global warming. Do all that and we might stand a chance. My gut-o-meter still says no but I do need to feed it the latest information.