revtothelimit - motorbike forum

So today I went and had a one hour taster session.. I can pull off.. change up gear - go in a big circle -and brake .. I only stalled once.. which I thought was not too bad.

BUT my co-ordination is off - so i kept changing gear without throttling off.. and i'm a bit 'trigger happy' on the clutch breaks - rather than being slow and smooth..

I'm also rubbish at looking to where i need to go - so am looking ahead and not turning my neck around enough.. I could not go 'round cones' or do figure 8's.. as my positioning was off!

The instructor was good at instructing and modeling so I booked my CBT.

Any tips for how to improve my above issues - or is it just practice..

I've been putting off doing this for about 2 years.. so I'm chuffed I've got this far! (procrastination is my middle name.. )

Was not sure if this is staying alive - or - should be somewhere else?!

Good a place as anywhere for it. I'll wait for the experts, but in simple terms, new things take time and practice

It's a lot to take in.

Don't panic, you'll get there

It sounds to me as if you've done pretty well if that was your first hour of riding. And you are obviously able to analyse your own faults, which will stand you in good stead. Further instruction, and practice, will get you there.

I first rode over 20 years ago now.. and not that often.. I'd learnt to drive a car since then! Fingers firmly crossed

First of all well done as not many get to gear changing on a taster session

The "look where you want to go" problem could be a simple as not turning your head enough or even letting your eyes be distracted by something wider in view. Look well ahead as looking at the patch of ground 6 feet in front of you will throw off your positioning. Also dont look at the cones as you will go towards them, look past them.

The gear changing is a mantra you have to repeat in your head "roll off throttle, clutch in, change up, ease out the clutch as you roll on throttle"........ for down change "roll off, brake to slow bike to correct speed, clutch in, click down and ease out clutch so get things smoothly under control"

You will only be in 1st and second gear on the training pad so keep the clutch under control so you can maintain the clutch clipping and keep the throttle revs "busy"

As a car driver the major difference is you are told never to slip the clutch and get off it early, on a bike we have oil in the clutch so thats the key to smooth slow speed control (before the pedants pick holes a few bikes have dry clutches but the vast majority have a wet clutch which allows slipping/feathering the clutch lever to maintain that slow speed finesse.....dont be in a hurry to get the clutch all the way out)

As you said its all about practise and seat time and the instructor finding the thing that clicks with you .... when it does click it all gets easier

Good advice, I do wonder how the African twin auto copes with very tight hairpins etc where clutch slip is required.

Tigs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:04 pm
BUT my co-ordination is off

Practice at home. Sit down, arms and legs as if riding. Say aloud the actions, mime them, slowly at first then up to real speed.

Tigs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:04 pm I'm also rubbish at looking to where i need to go

You need to be relaxed, otherwise it can't happen. And it's understandable if you're not.

Temptation is to look down at your hands and feet as you use the controls. Trust them. Sit up, drop your shoulders, keep your arms relaxed with a bend at the elbows.

First, get used to looking ahead in a straight line, then for turns. For something like slaloms, keep looking to the next bit of surface and as soon as the bike is going that way, look for the next.

For tight turns (circles, U, and on road bends), point your chin. For 'looking' temptation is to just move your eyes, it has to be your whole head.


Adding to BY's clutch info, another for home:
Make a 'handlebar grip and clutch lever' from your right thumb and index finger. Then squeeze in, ease out. Gently, eeaaase out.

Edit: re relaxed; you don't need - it's actually very counterproductive - to have a death grip on the handlebars.

Watch this. Seriously, watch it. Nominally about rake and trail, elements of motorcycle chassis design. But watch his hands as he explains...

That video was very eye opening - I could tell after that I must have had a vice like grip as my arms had been tense! I'm amazed how much control he had without touching the handlebars! Very useful to see

I have been visualising myself changing gear.. moving my hands - easing off - easing on - and the same with breaking! I just went out in the car and tried to think through all the automatic steps!

I think i look with my eyes and not with my head .. the twist goes down to your shoulders - whereas in the car its a slight twist.

Visualisation is a fantastic.

For machine control and head turns, look on YouTube for Jerry 'Motorman' Palladino.

Here's another fun video

Dodgy knees wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:09 am Good advice, I do wonder how the African twin auto copes with very tight hairpins etc where clutch slip is required.

One of the other instructors has a DCT NC750 without a clutch. Its a piece of piss as the bike just pulls itself around as a Auto car does......... wasnt so smooth the first time he tried a U turn in a road to demo to a student and forgot he had no clutch ... "So remember, busy revs...Wooooah ffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck ", up the kerb and onto the verge

He never did that again


For Tigs, your grip on the bars should be like holding an egg. Firm enough not to drop it but not tight enough to crack it

Bigyin wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:41 pm For Tigs, your grip on the bars should be like holding an egg. Firm enough not to drop it but not tight enough to crack it

Hopp rider training have a similar reminder for applying the front brake in an emergency: rather than 'grab', squeeze like you would shaking hands*

* pre Covid-19

Horse wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:06 pm
Hopp rider training have a similar reminder for applying the front brake in an emergency: rather than 'grab', squeeze like you would shaking hands*

* pre Covid-19

We use similar....tease then squeeze ....tease initiates the braking and gets the tyre working then squeeze gives the full braking power

Bigyin wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:41 pm

Dodgy knees wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:09 am Good advice, I do wonder how the African twin auto copes with very tight hairpins etc where clutch slip is required.

One of the other instructors has a DCT NC750 without a clutch. Its a piece of piss as the bike just pulls itself around as a Auto car does......... wasnt so smooth the first time he tried a U turn in a road to demo to a student and forgot he had no clutch ... "So remember, busy revs...Wooooah ffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck ", up the kerb and onto the verge

He never did that again

I had a lot of fun on little brother's NC750X in the Sierra Nevada back in Feb (got that trip in just in time) where there are plenty of steep, narrow roads... we even did a short stretch off road.

The overall very low gearing helps of course, but it just works at walking pace.

The trick is to drag the rear brake when doing anything tight where the slope changes - like a U turn on the road!! That way you can balance the forward drive UP slope, with retardation DOWN slope.

For Tigs, your grip on the bars should be like holding an egg. Firm enough not to drop it but not tight enough to crack it

Think of the bars like the reins of a horse or the tiller of a boat - something to steer with but not to hang on to.

Horse wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:06 pm

Bigyin wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:41 pm For Tigs, your grip on the bars should be like holding an egg. Firm enough not to drop it but not tight enough to crack it

Hopp rider training have a similar reminder for applying the front brake in an emergency: rather than 'grab', squeeze like you would shaking hands*

* pre Covid-19

I've used 'settle - squeeze - ease as a reminder since the mid-90s

Horse wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:50 pm Edit: re relaxed; you don't need - it's actually very counterproductive - to have a death grip on the handlebars.

Watch this. Seriously, watch it. Nominally about rake and trail, elements of motorcycle chassis design. But watch his hands as he explains...

Ha.

I have lost count of the times I've been told "you can only get a bike to turn via counter-steering"... even by someone who WATCHED me demo doing a slalom on a Triumph Sprint, a bike I'd ridden about 100 metres on before I turned round and did my hands-off slalom

Tigs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:04 pm So today I went and had a one hour taster session.. I can pull off.. change up gear - go in a big circle -and brake .. I only stalled once.. which I thought was not too bad.

BUT my co-ordination is off - so i kept changing gear without throttling off.. and i'm a bit 'trigger happy' on the clutch breaks - rather than being slow and smooth..

I'm also rubbish at looking to where i need to go - so am looking ahead and not turning my neck around enough.. I could not go 'round cones' or do figure 8's.. as my positioning was off!

The instructor was good at instructing and modeling so I booked my CBT.

Any tips for how to improve my above issues - or is it just practice..

I've been putting off doing this for about 2 years.. so I'm chuffed I've got this far! (procrastination is my middle name.. )

Was not sure if this is staying alive - or - should be somewhere else?!

You're doing well. It'll make CBT day itself a lot easier if you're ahead of the curve. You'll get more help on the day. Don't forget, CBT isn't about making you a skilled rider - it's about giving you just enough ability to get round the two hour road ride in one piece.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:36 pm I have lost count of the times I've been told "you can only get a bike to turn via counter-steering"..

I think he comments that the bars are based used for accurate and immediate steering.

Horse wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:25 pm

The Spin Doctor wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:36 pm I have lost count of the times I've been told "you can only get a bike to turn via counter-steering"..

I think he comments that the bars are based used for accurate and immediate steering.

Which is what I've been saying.