revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Who decided what words were for which use?

Genuinely got me thinking this tonight ...

Words matter, of course, but who decided which words was for what & all that bollocks?

A sound expressed as a word, even.

Time for bed I think. :/

What gets me is who decided to make the exact same word mean not quite the same thing in the language of a close country - a smidge confusing when learnng

Ugg and Ogg sitting in their cave one night decided to name things. They started with the most important things so they got the shortest words: I, me, you, he, her etc. Then man, girl, boy, fire, axe, spear, tree, dog cow, pig, meat. Then less important things got longer sounds: woman*, baby, etc.

*

It's only words
And words are all I have
To take your heart away

Noggin wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 6:50 am What gets me is who decided to make the exact same word mean not quite the same thing in the language of a close country - a smidge confusing when learnng

What gets me is who decided to make the exact same word mean two or more different things in the same language. That was mean.

Saga Lout wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 11:36 am

Noggin wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 6:50 am What gets me is who decided to make the exact same word mean not quite the same thing in the language of a close country - a smidge confusing when learnng

What gets me is who decided to make the exact same word mean two or more different things in the same language. That was mean.

Add all the instances of that together, average them out. It'll come somewhere in the middle. If only we had a word for it ...

Saga Lout wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 11:36 am

Noggin wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 6:50 am What gets me is who decided to make the exact same word mean not quite the same thing in the language of a close country - a smidge confusing when learnng

What gets me is who decided to make the exact same word mean two or more different things in the same language. That was mean.

Or sick.

Greedy architects caused all the confusion back in the day. None of you heathens know about the tower of Babel?

Why do we have to name everything? I learned the word for kettle in Germany "Wasserkocher" - water cooker. We didn't need to name it kettle. We could have just said water cooker because that's what it does.

Blame the Greeks and the Romans for most of it. Blame the Indians for lots of adopted words from bungalow (house in the style of Bengal) to chutney and beyond. Lots of words of similar origins shared with the French - it was, much to the dismay of some no doubt, the language of court before we got a German royal family.

The differences are interesting too (if that sort of thing interests you ) - Welsh and French (and Latin/Italian) for window are almost the same but we got window from Old Norse vindauga, literally 'wind eye' - so, obvs, pre-glazing 'cos it's where the wind got in. We'd probably call it a 'light eye' now.

PS Lots of people 'know' the Welsh for microwave - 'popty ping' but it's really, officially, 'meicrodon'.

Count Steer wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 2:41 pmLots of words of similar origins shared with the French

Started at 1066.

The locals farmed the food (eg 'cow'), the lords and masters ate it (bouef).

Trinity765 wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 2:17 pm Why do we have to name everything? I learned the word for kettle in Germany "Wasserkocher" - water cooker. We didn't need to name it kettle. We could have just said water cooker because that's what it does.

'cept the word Kettle predates the electric convenience by quite some years. That thing at the back of an orchestra looks nothing like a Morphy Richards after all.

So if anything it's the Germans who invented a new word here.

Trinity765 wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 2:17 pm Why do we have to name everything?
...

Well there's the thing that goes inside the other thing and then the thing comes along and takes it to the thing where a thing happens and makes a thing.

There's probably one or two things in that sentence that need names.

Count Steer wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 2:41 pm Blame the Greeks and the Romans for most of it. Blame the Indians for lots of adopted words from bungalow (house in the style of Bengal) to chutney and beyond. Lots of words of similar origins shared with the French - it was, much to the dismay of some no doubt, the language of court before we got a German royal family.

The differences are interesting too (if that sort of thing interests you ) - Welsh and French for window are almost the same but we got window from Old Norse vindauga, literally 'wind eye' - so, obvs, pre-glazing 'cos it's where the wind got in. We'd probably call it a 'light eye' now.

PS Lots of people 'know' the Welsh for microwave - 'popty ping' but it's really, officially, 'meicrodon'.

English is well known fir adopting foreign words. I suspect it is why we have so many words, far more tha many languages. Sometimes we stick with more of less the original sound, sometimes we translate it into English sounds (tall boy for haute bois).

Cousin Jack wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 6:18 pm

Count Steer wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 2:41 pm Blame the Greeks and the Romans for most of it. Blame the Indians for lots of adopted words from bungalow (house in the style of Bengal) to chutney and beyond. Lots of words of similar origins shared with the French - it was, much to the dismay of some no doubt, the language of court before we got a German royal family.

The differences are interesting too (if that sort of thing interests you ) - Welsh and French for window are almost the same but we got window from Old Norse vindauga, literally 'wind eye' - so, obvs, pre-glazing 'cos it's where the wind got in. We'd probably call it a 'light eye' now.

PS Lots of people 'know' the Welsh for microwave - 'popty ping' but it's really, officially, 'meicrodon'.

English is well known fir adopting foreign words. I suspect it is why we have so many words, far more tha many languages. Sometimes we stick with more of less the original sound, sometimes we translate it into English sounds (tall boy for haute bois).

We're regular mongrels, wot, with Saxons, Celts, Old Norse etc.

Things like 'architrave' make me smile*...nominally nicked from the Italians but the 'archi' bit comes from Greek (chief) and the 'trave' from Latin 'trabs/trabis' ie 'chief beam'. I suppose half of it is Italian .

* I know, I know...etymology (Greek 'etymos' meaning 'true') is a bit of a weird hobby.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 5:13 pm

Trinity765 wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 2:17 pm Why do we have to name everything? I learned the word for kettle in Germany "Wasserkocher" - water cooker. We didn't need to name it kettle. We could have just said water cooker because that's what it does.

'cept the word Kettle predates the electric convenience by quite some years. That thing at the back of an orchestra looks nothing like a Morphy Richards after all.

So if anything it's the Germans who invented a new word here.

Well before the Russell Hobbs era.

Old Norse - ketill. Probably from Latin for a deep cooking vessel (catillus).

However, re 'water cooker', soooo...what was the German 'Kessel'?

Cousin Jack wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 6:18 pm

Count Steer wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 2:41 pm Blame the Greeks and the Romans for most of it. Blame the Indians for lots of adopted words from bungalow (house in the style of Bengal) to chutney and beyond. Lots of words of similar origins shared with the French - it was, much to the dismay of some no doubt, the language of court before we got a German royal family.

The differences are interesting too (if that sort of thing interests you ) - Welsh and French for window are almost the same but we got window from Old Norse vindauga, literally 'wind eye' - so, obvs, pre-glazing 'cos it's where the wind got in. We'd probably call it a 'light eye' now.

PS Lots of people 'know' the Welsh for microwave - 'popty ping' but it's really, officially, 'meicrodon'.

English is well known fir adopting foreign words. I suspect it is why we have so many words, far more tha many languages. Sometimes we stick with more of less the original sound, sometimes we translate it into English sounds (tall boy for haute bois).

It gets worse...an hautboy is an oboe and an hautbois a sort of strawberry and a tallboy isn't just a chest of drawers, it's a long stemmed glass or a chimney extension for a smoky chimney.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 5:13 pm

Trinity765 wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 2:17 pm Why do we have to name everything? I learned the word for kettle in Germany "Wasserkocher" - water cooker. We didn't need to name it kettle. We could have just said water cooker because that's what it does.

'cept the word Kettle predates the electric convenience by quite some years. That thing at the back of an orchestra looks nothing like a Morphy Richards after all.

Hmmm ...
.


.

Le ver vert va vers le verre vert.

ChrisW wrote: Sun Aug 24, 2025 10:36 pm Le ver vert va vers le verre vert.

Teacher to pupil 'Right, Wright, write 'rite' right, right away'.

(Wright is also a a word ie not just a name - as in wheelwright - usually means carpenter, so Wright could have been told to 'write wright right Wright').