revtothelimit - motorbike forum

I've got a pal who wants to set up a hire car with him as instructor.
He's a good instructor but not a good business man.
Can I ask a few rough money questions to someone who's done a few car days?

He's got an older BMW M3 and plans to hire him and the car out for the day to a punter. So the usual sessions that a punter would buy.
It'll have duel controls.

How much fuel would a car use on a full day?

How many trackdays would a good set of tyres cost?

How much would set of new tyres cost?

Any other big costs?

He's a mechanic, so that will be a cheap area.

Dont need exact figures. Just enough to work out overheads for each day.

All help appreciated.

Oh, and public liability costs

When instructing, I had public liability insurance through the Driving Instructors Association.

How long your tyres last and how much a new set cost really will depend on which tyres you run.

As for fuel, I used to get through around 90 - 120 litres for a full day. Or call it a tank and a half to two tanks-full.

Has he talked to TDOs to check they're ok with it?

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 6:50 pm Has he talked to TDOs to check they're ok with it?

He's been an Instructor 20 years and works for MSV directly like I used to do.
So will have easy access.

ChrisW wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 6:43 pm How long your tyres last and how much a new set cost really will depend on which tyres you run.

As for fuel, I used to get through around 90 - 120 litres for a full day. Or call it a tank and a half to two tanks-full.

Ok. A rough figure for decent tyres?

Yorick wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 7:27 pm Ok. A rough figure for decent tyres?

I took a guess that your mate's M3 is an E46 & Toyo R888s are around £140 each.

Yorick wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 7:27 pm

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 6:50 pm Has he talked to TDOs to check they're ok with it?

He's been an Instructor 20 years and works for MSV directly like I used to do.
So will have easy access.

Still check and get it in writing. No point in any other planning and preparation if they object.

Potentially they might even say "Great idea, we'll do that. Thanks, bye."

From a logistics point of view, it's a three-way bit of organisation:
- punter books session hoping that car is free - or books the car hoping the day won't be fully booked
- your mate plans his costs around certain number of sessions - or does he take a non-refundable deposit

Don't get me wrong, I think it's an interesting idea that could work, but see above.

Another, quite critical, point:

Is your mate a DVSA Approved Driving Instructor?

He'll need to be if he's offering any sort of tuition (even away from public roads).

If he’s planning on a full day per customer I would imagine by the time you factor in the track hire, fuel, consumables and insurances, it would be more than any customer would be willing to pay.

As he already has the m3 then this won't help much but in my experience the lighter are car is then it will use way less in terms of consumables on track. I don't know how old the m3 is but my guess is that assuming it's reliable his main cost will be tyres, brakes and fuel and it'll use loads of all of those.

Also I don't know what use the dual controls will be and may make it a lot more dangerous. He may need to check with the organisers how happy they'd be with such controls.

Also, why doesn't he already know how much fuel and tyres his car uses? Hasn't he done track days in it? If not why would I want him as an instructor?

Yorick wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 2:24 pm I've got a pal who wants to set up a hire car with him as instructor.
He's a good instructor but not a good business man.


Can I ask a few rough money questions to someone who's done a few car days?

He's got an older BMW M3 and plans to hire him and the car out for the day to a punter. So the usual sessions that a punter would buy.

Something that will be critical is advertising.

First: does he know there is a demand for this service? If so (how?) how will punters know to look for him?

If what he offers is a new service, then he needs to get the message out - an awareness campaign.

He'll need to think like a punter.

My mate used to work for these guys...

https://www.rent4ring.de/en/rentals-for ... leife.html

That's the price per lap, obviously a short circuit is going to have a much shorter lap and the 'ring attracts a premium.

Basically he needs to charge ALOT to get even close to breaking even and the first time a punter sticks it in the barrier that's his earning potential gone until it's fixed.

He'll also want a damage deposit on top of the actual tuition fee that is returned if they don't total the car.

KungFooBob wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 9:20 pm He'll also want a damage deposit on top of the actual tuition fee that is returned if they don't total the car.

There was a guy on Pistonheads with a Lamborghini Murcielago that he used for supercar experiences. He put >250k miles on it IIRC. It was completely smashed up at one point and has had several engine rebuilds plus a chassis straightening. The car is still going AFAIK, I think he actually set up a whole business/fleet of cars based off that one Lambo (with no isurance )

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:34 pm Another, quite critical, point:

Is your mate a DVSA Approved Driving Instructor?

He'll need to be if he's offering any sort of tuition (even away from public roads).

No. That's not an issue. I was an instructor 17 years.
Road rules do not apply.

dern wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:56 pm Also, why doesn't he already know how much fuel and tyres his car uses? Hasn't he done track days in it? If not why would I want him as an instructor?

He will. I'm asking to help him as he's no idea of running a business

wheelnut wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:51 pm If he’s planning on a full day per customer I would imagine by the time you factor in the track hire, fuel, consumables and insurances, it would be more than any customer would be willing to pay.

I pay £400 to hire a GSXR1000 for a day.
Probably twice that for a car. Plus his wages.

I'm trying to find the costs to bring him down to earth

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 9:06 pm

Yorick wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 2:24 pm I've got a pal who wants to set up a hire car with him as instructor.
He's a good instructor but not a good business man.


Can I ask a few rough money questions to someone who's done a few car days?

He's got an older BMW M3 and plans to hire him and the car out for the day to a punter. So the usual sessions that a punter would buy.

Something that will be critical is advertising.

First: does he know there is a demand for this service? If so (how?) how will punters know to look for him?

If what he offers is a new service, then he needs to get the message out - an awareness campaign.

He'll need to think like a punter.

He reckons he has a few punters who'll be regulars

https://www.ringtaxi.com/en/ringtaxi/

Per lap ...