Fitness - prep n stuff!

[Noggin]

Ok, I'm sure I've asked stuff like this before, but I have had a brain like a squashed pea for a few years, so here we go again (sorry)!

I'm trying to get out ski touring (ON the piste) a lot more this season - mostly cos a season pass is bastard expensive and I probably won't always have 2 days off each week, so need to do something else on days when I have a morning or an evening free!! . I tend to go out really early (might do some later ones later in the season). Today was quite late, I left around 7.30am. Normally I'd leave between 5 & 6am. So, very much pre breakfast - so I don't eat or drink first and only drink water on the way. And I don't drink a lot of water really, probably not enough

I have tried to get into the habit of having a protein drink after I tour - mostly just to try and up my protein intake cos of my age, but also cos apparently it helps muscles.

The thing I don't know is - should I be having that before I start? During? Or is it ok to have it after ?


For now, I am generally walking about an hour. But I need to increase it to probably 2.5 hours to get to the top of the mountain (probably 3 hours the first few times!). Today was approx 2kms in distance and 150m in altitude - I then cheat and ski down!!


Anyway - any advice on basic nutrition for days I do this stupid sport would be greatly appreciated

[gremlin]

Everyone will have an opinion on this. Here's mine:

Try to eat before you leave. Your body needs energy and will allow you to do more whilst you're out in the morning. Carbs are not the enemy that everybody thinks they are, but do try to get plenty of protein (eggs, cheese and ham for a quick brekkie is a winner for me) as they fill you up and help repair/build muscle.

As to when you take protein, after is the prime time as after your muscles have worked, you get that soreness called DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscular Soreness), which is gym talk for aching a bit. That's your muscles being damaged by the exercise. Your body, being smart, thinks' Well, if she's gonna do that again, I'll make the muscle fibres stronger'. That's where the protein can help. Mind, if you're eating a protein-rich diet, and you ain't painting yourself in creosote and displaying your guns to an audience, you're probably getting enough without shakes.

One thing I would recommend is doing both cardio exercise and resistance, which you can do without a gym, just use body weight to squat, lunge, press up, etc. Stronger muscles will give you stronger bones, and osteoporosis can effect the fairer sex. Prevention is better than cure.

Ps. If you're walking lots, can you take my dog with you? I've yet to knacker her out. Cheers.

[Noggin]

If you look after dog inbetween walks she’s very welcome to come with me for the walks!!

I think the biggest issue with the eating before touring is that no way can I eat then walk up!! Wayyyyy too early for me and I’d need to stop at some point and there’s no facilities!!

Maybe I should do the shake half and half before/after. Or take it with me and sup a bit as I go.

I’m not sure I do eat enough protein, I’m building up to recording food intake to work out if I am. Luckily I don’t have bone density issues (so no osteoporosis) but apparently I do have degenerative disc disease that is affecting 4 vertebrae, so I need to get and stay fit before that gets worse.

Not sure what I’m going to do in the summer but winter is fairly simple as I think that, apart from weekends, I should be able to do a minimum of an hours walking up the mountain most days (and probably only 5-10 mins skiing down ). Need to see if I can work in some weight training but not so sure about that. I know I should I just also know I can do equal things on both sides so will just get pissed off with it !!

I’ll maybe try taking the shake with me and see how that goes

[Yorick]

If ya can't eat before you go, buy some decent energy bars. That's what they're for.
I use them now on enduro rides and trackdays.

[gremlin]

If ya can't eat before you go, buy some decent energy bars. That's what they're for.
I use them now on enduro rides and trackdays.

Be aware of the content of them. Many are carb laden and therefore calorific. Great if you are really burning calories on a real endurance event, but not if you're also trying to get into shape. Not only that, they can work out bloody expensive.

If I was Noggers, half a dozen eggs, boiled for 8 mins, take a couple with you. Mother Nature's pre-packed snack. Healthy and protein packed, plus cheap as eggs. Literally.

[Yorick]

If ya can't eat before you go, buy some decent energy bars. That's what they're for.
I use them now on enduro rides and trackdays.

Be aware of the content of them. Many are carb laden and therefore calorific. Great if you are really burning calories on a real endurance event, but not if you're also trying to get into shape. Not only that, they can work out bloody expensive.


I buy from Decathlon

[Count Steer]

Trail mix/bars are a piece of cake (arf!) to make.

Basic mixture for the bars: peanut butter and honey. Heat. Add what you like, oats, almonds, raisins, granola, linseed/flax what evs. Stir. Spread out. Cool. Slice up.

That way you can vary 'em in carb/fat content etc to suit your calorie burn etc.

PS However...chances are a couple of trail bars have more calories than are getting burned off.

Do a regular walking route, 4+ miles up and down, av. 3mph...on the Garmin it clocks up 90 minutes exercise and <400kcal burn through exercise + 110 just from breathing etc, so about 500kcal. Sooo, say about 350kcal/hr - that's not a medium cappuccino + pain au raisin never mind a fistful of nuts, seeds, honey.

Still the alps have bigger ups and downs than we do
so I guess the burn rate is higher.

Oh and PPS, protein is slow to process in the digestive system so before and during exercise is probably no impact during the exercise - unless it's for an extended period.

[Noggin]

If ya can't eat before you go, buy some decent energy bars. That's what they're for.
I use them now on enduro rides and trackdays.

I'll have a look at the ingredients on some of those - my issue is sweeteners, I really do try to avoid those more than sugar, but most of those sort of bars I've seen (albeit a few years ago!) were laden with sweeteners, so kinda put me off. But I'll see if I can find something useful!

If ya can't eat before you go, buy some decent energy bars. That's what they're for.
I use them now on enduro rides and trackdays.

Be aware of the content of them. Many are carb laden and therefore calorific. Great if you are really burning calories on a real endurance event, but not if you're also trying to get into shape. Not only that, they can work out bloody expensive.

If I was Noggers, half a dozen eggs, boiled for 8 mins, take a couple with you. Mother Nature's pre-packed snack. Healthy and protein packed, plus cheap as eggs. Literally.

Eggs makes sense really. Many years ago when I was cycling to work (only about 20-30 mins IIRC) someone said that that sort of exercise on an empty stomach is fine, just eat when you get to work. But I think that an hour or more of walking up a mountain is probably a bit more intense?!! I'm not sure if I don't feel great because I'm unfit or because I'm not eating right before, during, after!!

Trail mix/bars are a piece of cake (arf!) to make.

Basic mixture for the bars: peanut butter and honey. Heat. Add what you like, oats, almonds, raisins, granola, linseed/flax what evs. Stir. Spread out. Cool. Slice up.

That way you can vary 'em in carb/fat content etc to suit your calorie burn etc.

PS However...chances are a couple of trail bars have more calories than are getting burned off.

Do a regular walking route, 4+ miles up and down, av. 3mph...on the Garmin it clocks up 90 minutes exercise and <400kcal burn through exercise + 110 just from breathing etc, so about 500kcal. Sooo, say about 350kcal/hr - that's not a medium cappuccino + pain au raisin never mind a fistful of nuts, seeds, honey.

Still the alps have bigger ups and downs than we do
so I guess the burn rate is higher.

This isn't really about calories TBH. Although I don't want to eat too many, but if it would help me get higher up, then that would be worth it!!

Oh and PPS, protein is slow to process in the digestive system so before and during exercise is probably no impact during the exercise - unless it's for an extended period.

How long is extended? I can't work out the %age of steepness, but current 'quick' run is 1 km distance (thought it was two but forgot I didn't turn strava off for the run down!), 150m altitude and about 30 mins. (I take longer, but Strava no longer counts the pauses to look at the view!! ).

To get to the top it's approx 500m altitude and probably 3 or 3.5km. I reckon I might do that in 2.5hours but most likely 3 hours the first few times!!

Either of those counts as an extended period!!

[Count Steer]

Have a look for a pdf from the American College of Sports Medicine 'Protein Intake for Optimal Muscle Maintenance' - it's a download but only a couple of pages. (I tried to copy a link but each time I do it asks me if I want to download it again ).

Gremmers had it pretty much nailed up there ^^^ with the post-exercise muscle repair.

The other thing during exercise is hydration and, when I was weight training 3× per week I went with Martina Navratilova's 'Quickfix' rather than commercial electrolyte drinks. (Mineral water, a splash of orange juice for the sugars and a pinch of salt...you can get tricksy and use table salt and lo-salt if you want a bit of potassium with your sodium ). Tennis players are very fond of bananas too during matches. I seem to remember they're high in potassium (and magnesium and lots of other good stuff like vitamins).

Main thing every guide seems to say is eat 'properly' regularly and exercise regularly....and all the usual 'avoids'....booze, fags, caffeine, chips, crisps, double cream, Haribo, Millionaires Shortbread....

[gremlin]

Noggers. My only other bit of advice here is to stop overthinking. You're going for a nice, long walk, not breaking endurance records. Stick a few healthy snacks and a bottle of water in a backpack and go for it.

[Pirahna]

It's a 3 hour walk, just eat and drink normally. You said you worry about hydration so concentrate on drinking enough water.

[mangocrazy]

Let Roots Manuva be your guiding star...

Witness the fitness

[Noggin]

Noggers. My only other bit of advice here is to stop overthinking. You're going for a nice, long walk, not breaking endurance records. Stick a few healthy snacks and a bottle of water in a backpack and go for it.

TBF, I do just go walk until I'm too tired (or have to get back) and then ski back. But I'm also aware that to be able to get to the summit on a regular basis, there are better ways of doing this!! LOL

I guess there's also the thing - what is a healthy snack when you are walking up a mountain!! LOL I know, it's probably simple, but I've never really paid much attention to food. Never having had a 'good' relationship with it means I don't count or record anything. Generally eat when I'm hungry and whatever I have or what appeals! So, I'm not exactly good at understanding this stuff!! LOL

And, whilst it's not a competition, it is a bit of endurance!! It's 500m altitude in (I think) less than 4kms. (Will confirm that when I eventually get there!)

I've also spent 3 months of the course really not eating well, so have some catching up to do!!

It's a 3 hour walk, just eat and drink normally. You said you worry about hydration so concentrate on drinking enough water.

For me, if I leave at 5am, then 'normal' is not to eat until about 10am!! LOL Last time when I did two hours and didn't get to the top, I didn't eat before but had (probably) a small choc bar when I stopped, then coffee and pain au choc (and lots of water) when I got back to resort

I don't worry exactly about hydration, but I am aware that if I don't drink enough water during a day I don't feel good (usually a headache) - if I don't drink enough for a few days then I get woozy. But that's not happened for a few years as I work quite hard to make sure I drink enough now

Have a look for a pdf from the American College of Sports Medicine 'Protein Intake for Optimal Muscle Maintenance' - it's a download but only a couple of pages. (I tried to copy a link but each time I do it asks me if I want to download it again ).

Gremmers had it pretty much nailed up there ^^^ with the post-exercise muscle repair.

The other thing during exercise is hydration and, when I was weight training 3× per week I went with Martina Navratilova's 'Quickfix' rather than commercial electrolyte drinks. (Mineral water, a splash of orange juice for the sugars and a pinch of salt...you can get tricksy and use table salt and lo-salt if you want a bit of potassium with your sodium ). Tennis players are very fond of bananas too during matches. I seem to remember they're high in potassium (and magnesium and lots of other good stuff like vitamins).

Main thing every guide seems to say is eat 'properly' regularly and exercise regularly....and all the usual 'avoids'....booze, fags, caffeine, chips, crisps, double cream, Haribo, Millionaires Shortbread....

Not thought of the electrolyte stuff. But a friend up here that does a lot of mad stuff did suggest similar


The guy that suggested electrolytes (or even just sugar) in water does a lot of big road cycling, and is a ski instructor. He has suggested a few simple things (take fruit or dried fruit, jellied fruit (for sugars), oat type snack bars) - but the big thing he suggested was to change how I actually do the walk (speeds and stuff like that). And also that if I'm only doing 30-45 minutes then no food and just plain water is ok, as long as I eat when I get back down.

Just got to work out what works for me for the build up to get to the very top