revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Noggin wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 7:08 pm

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 5:50 pm

Sadlonelygit wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 5:40 pm
If you do something so patently daft ... That's my line in the sand.
Hill walking in blizzard and sub zero temperatures.

Serious Q: who gets to decide what's acceptable?

Surely NOT hill walking in a blizzard is just common sense, no?? (probably add in not with the right kit or they wouldn't need rescuing)

And that's the challenge on making those decisions. You can do everything 'properly' and it could still go wrong.

"You're suffering serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw? Before I can even consider dispatching mountain rescue, I need you to complete a short set of questions: are you an experienced hill walker, wearing clothing and footwear appropriate for the terrain and weather conditions? Do you have maps, GPS, and emergency equipment? Are you a silly billy for not going into town for a caramel latte? Hmmm ... well .... "


Re the avalanche example, TBH I know half of bugger all about skiing and boarding. I wonder whether there are biking parallels? Such as blind bends, a bit quick, etc. Common sense [should] reminds us about stopping distances. But how many riders, for whatever reasons, run out of talent (whether decision making, self control, or technical skills). If they do, is it a self-inflicted event, so they shouldn't expect any emergency help?

Going to the loo only to find that you dont have enough paper to blow your nose. Thankfully i learned a while back to look before you leap but its still annoying.

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 7:33 pm

Noggin wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 7:08 pm

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 5:50 pm

Serious Q: who gets to decide what's acceptable?

Surely NOT hill walking in a blizzard is just common sense, no?? (probably add in not with the right kit or they wouldn't need rescuing)

And that's the challenge on making those decisions. You can do everything 'properly' and it could still go wrong.

"You're suffering serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw? Before I can even consider dispatching mountain rescue, I need you to complete a short set of questions: are you an experienced hill walker, wearing clothing and footwear appropriate for the terrain and weather conditions? Do you have maps, GPS, and emergency equipment? Are you a silly billy for not going into town for a caramel latte? Hmmm ... well .... "

I think going out in weather that requires pro equipment but without that equipment is stupid. It deserves a slap or something. We all know it could all go wrong, but lets not suggest that going out in blizzard conditions and not fully equipped is remotely acceptable!! But people nowadays seem to feel they have no need to be responsible for themselves in any way. Maybe me and SLG are just old enough to remember when you were supposed to take some responsibility and not expect other people to sort you out when you can't be arsed to?

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 7:33 pm Re the avalanche example, TBH I know half of bugger all about skiing and boarding. I wonder whether there are biking parallels? Such as blind bends, a bit quick, etc. Common sense [should] reminds us about stopping distances. But how many riders, for whatever reasons, run out of talent (whether decision making, self control, or technical skills). If they do, is it a self-inflicted event, so they shouldn't expect any emergency help?

It's not even running out of talent. It's more like "hey look, that road is closed, but I reckon other people have been down there today - how fast do we think can get to on it as it'll be empty" - then finding out that the reason the road is closed is that the bridge is broken and you don't quite have enough speed to make it to the other side but too much to stop. Maybe add in a lack of any protective gear??

Running out of talent is so very different to ignoring a piste closed/dangerous or road closed for work sign.


And as I've said before, I don't actually think that people shouldn't get emergency help - HOWEVER, I do think they should take some responsibility for not being total fukwits and putting the rescuers at risk.

I'm sure you can imagine how awful it would feel to be the guy that didn't find the 14 year old kid in time and dug out a dead kid?? Yes, they sign up to rescue people, but I'm sure most would expect people off piste to have the gear required - or not ignore the closed signs? (Actually, nowadays I suspect they are resigned to the fuckwittery )

What's. SLG?

Yorick wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 11:29 amWhat's. SLG?

SadLonelyGit

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 7:33 pm

Noggin wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 7:08 pm

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 5:50 pm

Serious Q: who gets to decide what's acceptable?

Surely NOT hill walking in a blizzard is just common sense, no?? (probably add in not with the right kit or they wouldn't need rescuing)

And that's the challenge on making those decisions. You can do everything 'properly' and it could still go wrong.

"You're suffering serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw? Before I can even consider dispatching mountain rescue, I need you to complete a short set of questions: are you an experienced hill walker, wearing clothing and footwear appropriate for the terrain and weather conditions? Do you have maps, GPS, and emergency equipment? Are you a silly billy for not going into town for a caramel latte? Hmmm ... well .... "

Nope - if in this example the chest pain wasn't there when they started out, then you are fishing, big time! If anyone started out for a big hill walk whilst already suffering from serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw then surely they really are stupid!!

Noggin wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:30 pm

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 7:33 pm

Noggin wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 7:08 pm

Surely NOT hill walking in a blizzard is just common sense, no?? (probably add in not with the right kit or they wouldn't need rescuing)

And that's the challenge on making those decisions. You can do everything 'properly' and it could still go wrong.

"You're suffering serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw? Before I can even consider dispatching mountain rescue, I need you to complete a short set of questions: are you an experienced hill walker, wearing clothing and footwear appropriate for the terrain and weather conditions? Do you have maps, GPS, and emergency equipment? Are you a silly billy for not going into town for a caramel latte? Hmmm ... well .... "

Nope - if in this example the chest pain wasn't there when they started out, then you are fishing, big time! If anyone started out for a big hill walk whilst already suffering from serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw then surely they really are stupid!!

Many people put the onset of a heart attack down to indigestion.

But the point is that the rescuers - if despatched - would need to be out in the same conditions.

Horse wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 5:06 pm

Noggin wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:30 pm

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 7:33 pm

And that's the challenge on making those decisions. You can do everything 'properly' and it could still go wrong.

"You're suffering serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw? Before I can even consider dispatching mountain rescue, I need you to complete a short set of questions: are you an experienced hill walker, wearing clothing and footwear appropriate for the terrain and weather conditions? Do you have maps, GPS, and emergency equipment? Are you a silly billy for not going into town for a caramel latte? Hmmm ... well .... "

Nope - if in this example the chest pain wasn't there when they started out, then you are fishing, big time! If anyone started out for a big hill walk whilst already suffering from serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw then surely they really are stupid!!

Many people put the onset of a heart attack down to indigestion.

But the point is that the rescuers - if despatched - would need to be out in the same conditions.

But the rescuers are trained and fully equipped!!

Getting called out to illness or injury is the job

Getting called out for fuckwits with zero sense, zero responsibility and usually little or no kit is also the job

But the last is a case of rescuing stupidity, some would say let Darwin win, but most rescuers I know go out for any reason as that’s why they signed up. But being put at risk because some people are just fucking styling and irresponsible is not the same as the other two reasons


Not sure if you disagree as I still think you’re fishing. But I’m too tired to work it out!!

Noggin wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 10:17 am

Horse wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 5:06 pm

Noggin wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:30 pm

Nope - if in this example the chest pain wasn't there when they started out, then you are fishing, big time! If anyone started out for a big hill walk whilst already suffering from serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw then surely they really are stupid!!

Many people put the onset of a heart attack down to indigestion.

But the point is that the rescuers - if despatched - would need to be out in the same conditions.

But the rescuers are trained and fully equipped!!

Getting called out to illness or injury is the job

Getting called out for fuckwits with zero sense, zero responsibility and usually little or no kit is also the job

But the last is a case of rescuing stupidity, some would say let Darwin win, but most rescuers I know go out for any reason as that’s why they signed up. But being put at risk because some people are just fucking styling and irresponsible is not the same as the other two reasons


Not sure if you disagree as I still think you’re fishing. But I’m too tired to work it out!!

No, we're violently agreeing. My view, like yours, is rescue people who need help.

The original suggestion was, basically, let the fuckwits die. I asked how the call handler could tell 'fuckwit' or 'expert'?

Horse wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 11:58 am I asked how the call handler could tell 'fuckwit' or 'expert'?

This is it, in a nutshell.

Every time there's a story in the news about people in flip flops being rescued from Everest there's a chorus of "don't rescue the stupid people". As above, how's the call handler supposed to know if they're stupid? Or maybe we think the rescuers should just go out, see that you're stupid, then leave you on your tod?

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:03 pm

Horse wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 11:58 am I asked how the call handler could tell 'fuckwit' or 'expert'?

This is it, in a nutshell.

Every time there's a story in the news about people in flip flops being rescued from Everest there's a chorus of "don't rescue the stupid people". As above, how's the call handler supposed to know if they're stupid? Or maybe we think the rescuers should just go out, see that you're stupid, then leave you on your tod?

I was about to say that maybe a fine or payment should be demanded, but then in all news stories published it does tend to be the case that the "ill-prepared" rescuees are thoroughly lambasted by the leader of the rescue group in his media interview, which could be seen as justice enough?

Who decides what's dangerous?

Just nipping into town in t-shirt, shorts and flip flops?

Or out with the crazy boys on Sunday in full protection?

Rockburner wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:09 pm... that the "ill-prepared" rescuees are thoroughly lambasted by the leader of the rescue group in his media interview, which could be seen as justice enough?

When the lifeboat folks go out to rescue people on inflatables that have caught an offshore breeze, it seems they often get punctured 'accidentally'

Horse wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 5:06 pm

Noggin wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:30 pm

Horse wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 7:33 pm

And that's the challenge on making those decisions. You can do everything 'properly' and it could still go wrong.

"You're suffering serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw? Before I can even consider dispatching mountain rescue, I need you to complete a short set of questions: are you an experienced hill walker, wearing clothing and footwear appropriate for the terrain and weather conditions? Do you have maps, GPS, and emergency equipment? Are you a silly billy for not going into town for a caramel latte? Hmmm ... well .... "

Nope - if in this example the chest pain wasn't there when they started out, then you are fishing, big time! If anyone started out for a big hill walk whilst already suffering from serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw then surely they really are stupid!!

Many people put the onset of a heart attack down to indigestion.

But the point is that the rescuers - if despatched - would need to be out in the same conditions.

In my late teens I got a really bad chest pain whilst walking to the pub. I had to stop and sit down and didn't have a clue what was happening. The Police saw me sitting on the pavement holding my chest and stopped and despite my protests, they called for an Ambo. I guess the Ambo crews didn't have the equipment they do today as I got blues and twos to the A&E!

It was subsiding by the time I got there and Docs did some tests and said it wasn't a heart attack and was probably indigestion or a panic attack! I felt very embarrassed about the whole thing and started to apologise but doc was having none of it. He said indigestion and heart attacks can initially give very similar symptoms and its right to go to A&E to be sure!

Taipan wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 1:07 pm

Horse wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 5:06 pm

Noggin wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:30 pm

Nope - if in this example the chest pain wasn't there when they started out, then you are fishing, big time! If anyone started out for a big hill walk whilst already suffering from serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw then surely they really are stupid!!

Many people put the onset of a heart attack down to indigestion.

But the point is that the rescuers - if despatched - would need to be out in the same conditions.

In my late teens I got a really bad chest pain whilst walking to the pub. I had to stop and sit down and didn't have a clue what was happening. The Police saw me sitting on the pavement holding my chest and stopped and despite my protests, they called for an Ambo. I guess the Ambo crews didn't have the equipment they do today as I got blues and twos to the A&E!

It was subsiding by the time I got there and Docs did some tests and said it wasn't a heart attack and was probably indigestion or a panic attack! I felt very embarrassed about the whole thing and started to apologise but doc was having none of it. He said indigestion and heart attacks can initially give very similar symptoms and its right to go to A&E to be sure!

I always keep Gaviscon nearby. If symptoms didn't go in 15 mins, I'd be on the phone to the hozzy.

Horse wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 1:01 pm

Rockburner wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:09 pm... that the "ill-prepared" rescuees are thoroughly lambasted by the leader of the rescue group in his media interview, which could be seen as justice enough?

When the lifeboat folks go out to rescue people on inflatables that have caught an offshore breeze, it seems they often get punctured 'accidentally'

No...it's quite deliberate.....

Yorick wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:03 pm

Taipan wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 1:07 pm

Horse wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 5:06 pm

Many people put the onset of a heart attack down to indigestion.

But the point is that the rescuers - if despatched - would need to be out in the same conditions.

In my late teens I got a really bad chest pain whilst walking to the pub. I had to stop and sit down and didn't have a clue what was happening. The Police saw me sitting on the pavement holding my chest and stopped and despite my protests, they called for an Ambo. I guess the Ambo crews didn't have the equipment they do today as I got blues and twos to the A&E!

It was subsiding by the time I got there and Docs did some tests and said it wasn't a heart attack and was probably indigestion or a panic attack! I felt very embarrassed about the whole thing and started to apologise but doc was having none of it. He said indigestion and heart attacks can initially give very similar symptoms and its right to go to A&E to be sure!

I always keep Gaviscon nearby. If symptoms didn't go in 15 mins, I'd be on the phone to the hozzy.

If it isn't indigestion you would be likely expired.

Taipan wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 1:07 pm The Police saw me sitting on the pavement holding my chest and stopped and despite my protests, they called for an Ambo. I guess the Ambo crews didn't have the equipment they do today as I got blues and twos to the A&E!

It was subsiding by the time I got there and Docs did some tests and said it wasn't a heart attack and was probably indigestion or a panic attack! I felt very embarrassed about the whole thing and started to apologise but doc was having none of it. He said indigestion and heart attacks can initially give very similar symptoms and its right to go to A&E to be sure!

They carry a ghettoblaster-sized gizmo, around here they're called a 'Zoll'. It can do pulse, oxygen sats, full '12' lead ECG - and a defibrillator.

Typically, 'chest pain' gets you a trip to A&E.

Yorick wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:03 pm
I always keep Gaviscon nearby. If symptoms didn't go in 15 mins, I'd be on the phone to the hozzy.

Then pop 300 mg aspirin too.

(As long as you haven't already, don't have an allergy, no liver or GI issues)

Taipan wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 1:07 pm

Horse wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 5:06 pm

Noggin wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:30 pm

Nope - if in this example the chest pain wasn't there when they started out, then you are fishing, big time! If anyone started out for a big hill walk whilst already suffering from serious chest pain, down your arms, up into your jaw then surely they really are stupid!!

Many people put the onset of a heart attack down to indigestion.

But the point is that the rescuers - if despatched - would need to be out in the same conditions.

In my late teens I got a really bad chest pain whilst walking to the pub. I had to stop and sit down and didn't have a clue what was happening. The Police saw me sitting on the pavement holding my chest and stopped and despite my protests, they called for an Ambo. I guess the Ambo crews didn't have the equipment they do today as I got blues and twos to the A&E!

It was subsiding by the time I got there and Docs did some tests and said it wasn't a heart attack and was probably indigestion or a panic attack! I felt very embarrassed about the whole thing and started to apologise but doc was having none of it. He said indigestion and heart attacks can initially give very similar symptoms and its right to go to A&E to be sure!

Don't beat yourself up about it. I have heart problems and had a bout of indigestion - a bad one that was extremely painful. Mrs called 999, paramedics didn't like my ECG and I got blue lighted to hospital.