revtothelimit - motorbike forum

So, I'm guessing the answer was "no"

I suppose it depends who's looking.

Mr Moofo wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:51 pm So, I'm guessing the answer was "no"

In very simple terms, more lamps might = brighter. Conspicuity, in its 'attention' form, is down to contrast. So, against a darker background, brighter should be better at attraction.

But that doesn't mean the viewer will know what they're seeing. And if they do, that doesn't mean they will take appropriate action.

What about unusualness as an attention-grabber? Yellow lights, bright pink clothing* in daytime and reflectivity at night can grab some (not all) drivers attention. We need several tools in the SMIDSY toolbox, and yellow lights could be one of them.

The usual caveats apply: nothing is foolproof, contrast depends on the background, roadcraft matters more than clothing and lights. Nonetheless, attention-grabbing gear could be helpful in some circumstances.

* Rapha pink for the well-heeled cyclists

Hot_Air wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:38 am What about unusualness as an attention-grabber? Yellow lights, bright pink clothing* in daytime and reflectivity at night can grab some (not all) drivers attention. We need several tools in the SMIDSY toolbox, and yellow lights could be one of them.

The usual caveats apply: nothing is foolproof, contrast depends on the background, roadcraft matters more than clothing and lights. Nonetheless, attention-grabbing gear could be helpful in some circumstances.

* Rapha pink for the well-heeled cyclists

I don't think I've ever seen a bike because of the colour of their clothing - in fact the only thing I can recall is observing things like hi-vis belts or lurid leathers as the bike has passed by: from in front all you can see is the light and bodywork, even naked bikes don't tend to allow clothing to be visible from the front.

And don't get me started on bikes with hi-vis belts and a top-box.....

You could be right about clothing, so I’ll take that pink jacket off my Chrimbo list

Rockburner wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:53 am from in front all you can see is the light and bodywork

That could be an argument for Spin’s yellow headlight.

Hot_Air wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:38 am What about unusualness as an attention-grabber? Yellow lights, bright pink clothing* in daytime and reflectivity at night can grab some (not all) drivers attention.

As above

Horse wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:56 pm But that doesn't mean the viewer will know what they're seeing. And if they do, that doesn't mean they will take appropriate action.

Hot_Air wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:38 am We need several tools in the SMIDSY toolbox

The main one is to be active, not passive.

Hot_Air wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:11 am You could be right about clothing, so I’ll take that pink jacket off my Chrimbo list

Rockburner wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:53 am from in front all you can see is the light and bodywork

That could be an argument for Spin’s yellow headlight.

If you look back through the thread you'll see that I espouse that idea myself already.

Is a yellow headlight legal in the UK?

BMW put 'em on the M4 CSL from the factory...

Mr Moofo wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:16 am Is a yellow headlight legal in the UK?

Yes

Rockburner wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:53 am
I don't think I've ever seen a bike because of the colour of their clothing

Probably less to do with conspicuity / visibility than cognitive awareness.

One of the training exercises I do is to get riders to slow down and actively search for triangular warning signs. Why? Because whilst we may know intellectually what signs means, unless we train our brain to identify them, we won't actually consciously SEE them even when they are in the visual field. Most trainees think it's a bit daft, until they begin to realise just how many important signs like junctions and bends they are missing. I ask them to make a note of how many 'new' signs they see on one of their regular rides. Most report that there are quite a few they'd never seen before. Similarly, as a rule, bikers spot other bikes more readily than drivers with zero interest in bikes. As I have an interest in hi-vis / DRLs I often spot riders using pink quite a long way off.


But it's all about contrasts - hi-vis only works if it's a different colour to the background. Pink's pretty good for rural roads, whereas yellow and to a less extent orange tend to blend in, particularly in spring (yellow) and autumn (yellow and orange).

- in fact the only thing I can recall is observing things like hi-vis belts or lurid leathers as the bike has passed by: from in front all you can see is the light and bodywork, even naked bikes don't tend to allow clothing to be visible from the front.

Which is another reason for avoiding a battery of bright lights, and why vests and H belts are particularly useless as hi-vis garments. Even full jackets vanish behind a big screen.

And don't get me started on bikes with hi-vis belts and a top-box.....

Hot_Air wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:11 am You could be right about clothing, so I’ll take that pink jacket off my Chrimbo list

Rockburner wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:53 am from in front all you can see is the light and bodywork

That could be an argument for Spin’s yellow headlight.

Don't be too hasty to ditch the pink

If you want max contrast, go for the colour that's OPPOSITE your riding environment... so look what's on the other side from yellow/green.

Mr Moofo wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:16 am Is a yellow headlight legal in the UK?

Yes. (Beaten by Horse!)

Our headlights are white, so auxiliary lights of a different colour should contrast with the white whatever is in the background, possibly maybe.

At the end of the day, if driver's drive without due care and attention there ain't much we can do and shit driving is definitely on the increase, bubbles n all.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:02 pm But it's all about contrasts - hi-vis only works if it's a different colour to the background.

Dodgy69 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:47 pm Our headlights are white, so auxiliary lights of a different colour should contrast with the white whatever is in the background, possibly maybe.

At the end of the day, if driver's drive without due care and attention there ain't much we can do and shit driving is definitely on the increase, bubbles n all.

Turn the white lights off in daylight... then there's no conflict between the yellow and white.

Simply adding more lights isn't the answer. It's using the most effective light patterns and colours.

And as Horse said, it's necessary to be proactive. Shit doesn't 'just happen'. More often than not, we can see it coming and do something about it. It's not ALWAYS possible - a discussion I had with Tenbears long ago where he actually persuaded me that there are events over which we have zero control, but he also accepted that many "there was nothing I could do" crashes only happened because the rider did nothing to take proactive action.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:43 pm

Dodgy69 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:47 pm Our headlights are white, so auxiliary lights of a different colour should contrast with the white whatever is in the background, possibly maybe.

At the end of the day, if driver's drive without due care and attention there ain't much we can do and shit driving is definitely on the increase, bubbles n all.

Turn the white lights off in daylight... then there's no conflict between the yellow and white.

Simply adding more lights isn't the answer. It's using the most effective light patterns and colours.

And as Horse said, it's necessary to be proactive. Shit doesn't 'just happen'. More often than not, we can see it coming and do something about it. It's not ALWAYS possible - a discussion I had with Tenbears long ago where he actually persuaded me that there are events over which we have zero control, but he also accepted that many "there was nothing I could do" crashes only happened because the rider did nothing to take proactive action.

I assume that includes refusing to slow down?

Rockburner wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:09 pm I assume that includes refusing to slow down?

Plenty of road users refuse to "because I have priority". Rarely a good choice.

This is what I saw.