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Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:28 pm
by Taipan
Yorick wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:07 pm
Taipan wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:51 pm
Whysub wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 5:29 pm
Yes, employer had to supply my name to the police, as is the law. I had booked the bike out from the garage, and it all tallied with my ride which I had entered in the log for the bike.
Some dozy bint in the office initially told me it was Dangerous Driving.
I immediately contacted a solicitor, who told me a ban was highly likely, so I was in quite a panic for a few hours until someone else in the office said it was Driving Without Due Care.
When I got caught the other day, for blatting it through the lower gears in the tunnel on Upper Thames St, the cop obviously couldn't time me and get for speeding, so as I crossed the unbroken white lines (I did) and he said I undertook a vehicle (I didn't), he went for careless driving. Years ago it would have been a bollacking, but now they have encompassing charges that seem to only require them saying it happened and your options to challenge are loaded. It was an empty tunnel with no one else in it, not down the high street with a danger of pedestrians stepping out in front of me etc, but, its their game with their rules. He was bloody furious to start with, although he calmed down as I never back chatted and was respectful with my replies, and he was almost amicable at the end, but I came away with a bit less respect for Plod than I had before. I'm still an avid supporter of the Police mind, and in
his defence I did learn something from the awareness course. D'oh!
Bloody kids nowadays. No respect for the law. Etc.
There was bloke in his 20s on my course. He was uon there cos he didn't move over in time when a cop was behind him with blues and twos going. The trainer said that's unusual but it does happen. How long was he behind you. He said ,and I shit you not, I dunno I didn't hear him as I had my music up loud!
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:46 pm
by Le_Fromage_Grande
The thing is, are you going to plead not guilty and argue the toss in court when the punishment is an awareness course if you admit guilt?
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:09 pm
by Whysub
Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:46 pm
The thing is, are you going to plead not guilty and argue the toss in court when the punishment is an awareness course if you admit guilt?
Exactly this. What (I presume) had been recorded I had no idea. And we all know that a 65 year old, blue rinsed hair female magistrate will think any one riding a bike is a kitten and nun killer, and could make it a very unpleasant experience.
My awareness course (which nothing to do with speed) was interesting, and was held in the board room.at Colchester United, and had a very pleasant view from the window.
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:42 pm
by The Spin Doctor
Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:24 pm
Obviously those dash cams are calibrated like the official speed cameras have to be and there's a traceable record to show that the footage hasn't been tampered with?
Any half way reasonable lawyer could poke a hole in any attempted conviction from dash cam footage.
If it's speed only, it's easy enough to calculate speed if there are centre line markings visible. They're a fixed length, so just count how many go past in a fixed time.
And halfway decent lawyers cost.
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:35 pm
by Le_Fromage_Grande
The Spin Doctor wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:42 pm
If it's speed only, it's easy enough to calculate speed if there are centre line markings visible. They're a fixed length, so just count how many go past in a fixed time.
How can you prove that the footage hasn't been speeded up to show a faster speed?
You don't have to prove that it's been done, just that it could have been done.
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:27 pm
by Taff
Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:35 pm
The Spin Doctor wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:42 pm
If it's speed only, it's easy enough to calculate speed if there are centre line markings visible. They're a fixed length, so just count how many go past in a fixed time.
How can you prove that the footage hasn't been speeded up to show a faster speed?
You don't have to prove that it's been done, just that it could have been done.
Some cameras may not record in real time, my innovv has got the option to work in a time lapse mode.
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:45 pm
by The Spin Doctor
Taff wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:27 pm
Some cameras may not record in real time, my innovv has got the option to work in a time lapse mode.
Then you'll get stop-start images...
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:52 pm
by The Spin Doctor
Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:35 pm
How can you prove that the footage hasn't been speeded up to show a faster speed?
You don't have to prove that it's been done, just that it could have been done.
I seem to remember we've had this discussion before.
I'm sure the answer is that there is no way to prove conclusively it's not been tampered with, but if PC Plod says it must be so, you're going to have a tough time proving otherwise. Years ago a mate got done for speeding. The police had observed him move off from a red light, tucked in behind to follow him 200 yards with their calibrated speedo, then stopped him and booked him for 60+ mph.
The entire case was a fabrication, he produced road test data and measurement evidence that proved that there was no way that he could have been doing 60 at the point they claimed to have been following him. The bike simply couldn't have accelerated rapidly enough. He also questioned the performance of the car to have gone from 0 to 60 from where they pulled out of the entrance.
The magistrate told him that the police wouldn't lie, gave him 6 points and a hefty fine.
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:17 pm
by Le_Fromage_Grande
We probably have had the discussion before, and having been to Magistrates Court twice for speeding it really is something best avoided, magistrates really are scum of the earth, they really shouldn't be allowed to make legal decisions with so little knowledge.
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:33 pm
by Whysub
This^^^^^
Accept a course or the three points EVERY time
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 5:22 pm
by The Spin Doctor
The Spin Doctor wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:52 pm
The police had observed him move off from a red light, tucked in behind to follow him 200 yards with their calibrated speedo, then stopped him and booked him for 60+ mph.
Actually thinking back again, the whole point was that it WASN'T a calibrated speedo, just an ordinary station car with two plod sitting next to each, who each said that in his judgement the bike was doing over 60.
A transparent stitch-up to everyone but the magistrate.
The only blessing was Dave didn't get the ban the magistrate said she was contemplating.
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:10 pm
by Beancounter
Taipan wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:51 pm
When I got caught the other day, for blatting it through the lower gears in the tunnel on Upper Thames St, the cop obviously couldn't time me and get for speeding, so as I crossed the unbroken white lines (I did) and he said I undertook a vehicle (I didn't), he went for careless driving. Years ago it would have been a bollacking, but now they have encompassing charges that seem to only require them saying it happened and your options to challenge are loaded. It was an empty tunnel with no one else in it, not down the high street with a danger of pedestrians stepping out in front of me etc, but, its their game with their rules. He was bloody furious to start with, although he calmed down as I never back chatted and was respectful with my replies, and he was almost amicable at the end, but I came away with a bit less respect for Plod than I had before. I'm still an avid supporter of the Police mind, and in
his defence I did learn something from the awareness course. D'oh!
I assumed you'd got caught as you came out from the Blackfriars rail underpass, not through the tunnel - purely because you were pulled over on the Embankment and I side the cops there a few times with the speed gun. Very easy to speed through that tunnel, the 20mph limit is a joke, especially as there are no pedestrians or cyclists like you say.
Passing the attitude has saved me from a clear driving ban before - undertaking and filtering at speed on the A2 (50mph limit, caught by a marked bike following me).
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:18 pm
by Taipan
Beancounter wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:10 pm
Taipan wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:51 pm
When I got caught the other day, for blatting it through the lower gears in the tunnel on Upper Thames St, the cop obviously couldn't time me and get for speeding, so as I crossed the unbroken white lines (I did) and he said I undertook a vehicle (I didn't), he went for careless driving. Years ago it would have been a bollacking, but now they have encompassing charges that seem to only require them saying it happened and your options to challenge are loaded. It was an empty tunnel with no one else in it, not down the high street with a danger of pedestrians stepping out in front of me etc, but, its their game with their rules. He was bloody furious to start with, although he calmed down as I never back chatted and was respectful with my replies, and he was almost amicable at the end, but I came away with a bit less respect for Plod than I had before. I'm still an avid supporter of the Police mind, and in
his defence I did learn something from the awareness course. D'oh!
I assumed you'd got caught as you came out from the Blackfriars rail underpass, not through the tunnel - purely because you were pulled over on the Embankment and I side the cops there a few times with the speed gun. Very easy to speed through that tunnel, the 20mph limit is a joke, especially as there are no pedestrians or cyclists like you say.
Passing the attitude has saved me from a clear driving ban before - undertaking and filtering at speed on the A2 (50mph limit, caught by a marked bike following me).
No, I did the tunnel thing and was sitting at the lights just outside it and he'd come screaming after me and pulled up next to me and told me to pull into the layby further down, where you saw me.
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:53 pm
by Horse
The Spin Doctor wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:52 pm
Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:35 pm
How can you prove that the footage hasn't been speeded up to show a faster speed?
I seem to remember we've had this discussion before.
We have. At least, I answered the first time it was asked in this thread
And the other answer is that it couldn't be speeded up in isolation for just the vehicle that's the subject of the complaint, all other vehicles - including the one recording the footage - would be speeded up too.
And and ... many dashcams have speed (from GPS*) overlaid.
* It's a guide only, not always accurate.
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 9:32 pm
by MrLongbeard
Horse wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:53 pm
And and ... many dashcams have speed (from GPS*) overlaid.
First thing I turned off on both of mine
also the time and date is wrong on both of them.
Re: Dash cams on bikes
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 1:13 pm
by Whysub
Beancounter wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:10 pm
Very easy to speed through that tunnel, the 20mph limit is a joke, especially as there are no pedestrians or cyclists like you say.
I used to see cyclists in there quite frequently, likewise the Limehouse Link and East India Tunnels.
But then, cyclists of that calibre are invincible.