revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Supermofo wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:38 am TBF I've found modern bikes really efficient. The 690 Duke would regularly hit 60 mpg without trying at all and that spent a fair amount of it's time in it's upper rev reaches. That was just riding normally.

And the GSXS 1000 has really surprised me I regularly get 48-50mpg riding on days out.

This compared to about 39 mpg out of my Firestorm and 44mpg on my R6.

Yes, I've found that with my 690 Duke. They really don't enjoy being ridden 'economically', but do like being revved and still return amazingly good MPG. What's not to like?

Manufacturers have had to concentrate so much on emissions in the last 15-20 years, and the easiest way to do that is to reduce the amount of fuel being burnt or (more accurately) make fuel usage much more efficient, so for any given road speed you're using less fuel than before. As long as it doesn't make the bike a pig to ride, I'm fine with that.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:40 am

Trinity765 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:11 am Economic and fun are at different ends of the scale.

Even F1 and MotoGP racers worry about fuel consumption.

Yebbut, they have a prescribed amount of fuel to play with. We don't have that restriction.

Other than what we can afford, obvs...

Hot_Air wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:19 pm

Trinity765 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:39 am 20 in 2nd, 30 in 3rd, 40 in 4th etc

That’s not an IAM Roadsmart rule — no such IAM rule exists.

It might have been your Observer’s rule of thumb, but that’s the downside of amateur Observers as opposed to professional Instructors.

Those speed-to-gear ratios are meaningless. It depends on the circumstances, your bike, etc.

It's something that's advocated by the "tutors" on the speed awareness courses. Don't know where they get it from.

mangocrazy wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:56 am

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:40 am

Trinity765 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:11 am Economic and fun are at different ends of the scale.

Even F1 and MotoGP racers worry about fuel consumption.

Yebbut, they have a prescribed amount of fuel to play with. We don't have that restriction.

Nearly every sort of 'circuit racing' type motorsport worries about fuel consumption - better mpg = less fuel needed = less weight.

Not really my point though, my point is just that trying to use less fuel is as interesting to me as trying to go faster and trying to do both at the same time is a real challenge.

You'll definitely struggle with that challenge if you subscribe to a daft "2nd gear at 20mph" rule though, I'm still reeling from hearing that one

Yes, I get that we should all be looking to do more with less, but I find it about as achievable as I did when I was still in work and being told to do the same...

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:40 am

Trinity765 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:11 am Economic and fun are at different ends of the scale.

Even F1 and MotoGP racers worry about fuel consumption.

'Course, the real challenge is to travel fast AND economically, which is totally possible. Just more difficult.

Yup. No brakes

Hot_Air wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:09 pm I’ve had many more positive experiences with BiB motorcyclists, having toured the Alps and Picos with several. The various police Class 1 guys I’ve ridden with were great – silky smooth and speedy-yet-safe.

In contrast, I found the inflexibility issue with some IAM riders, who have less skill and experience than police motorcyclists yet a more dogmatic approach to riding. Not all IAM riders, mind you, as others have been good.

That’s not to say some trackday riders also can’t have odd attitudes. There’s nowt so queer as motorcycle folk.

I hate to say it, but ime, there's something about IAM riders that just makes them dangerous to ride near. Most of the really dumb stuff I've seen (as opposed to done ), have been from IAM riders who were convinced they were in the right.

Including the lunatic on a 900 Diversion overtaking a car on the M40 by riding between the rumble strip and the Armco, (the car was doing 90 in the lane 3), waving his fist at the car for no apparent reason.

Further to my above post there was a time in advance circles where braking before a corner was bad. In that, if you are well planned and looking forward you can slow down for a corner using engine braking and the result is a very smooth ride (and economic where petrol is concerned). That changed at some point and the reason I was told was brakes are cheaper than clutches (I wouldn't know because all of my clutches have been replaced under warranty).

I am a fan of breaking into corners. It's an art that gets ignored but to me, it's a skill and offers more control when used correctly. If I mention braking into corners I am often met with shock and horror and remarks about how dangerous that is.

Trinity765 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:19 am I am a fan of braking into corners. It's an art that gets ignored but to me, it's a skill and offers more control when used correctly. If I mention braking into corners I am often met with shock and horror and remarks about how dangerous that is.

I really don't understand that attitude. Appropriate use of the brakes is, as you say, a skill that not only makes you a quicker rider, but a safer one as well. One of the pleasures of riding a bike fast down a twisty road is knowing when to use the brakes and when to just use engine braking, and (when using the brakes) doing so in a manner that doesn't upset or destabilise the plot. Gradually easing off the brakes without upsetting the suspension as you peel into a corner is one of the most satisfying skills when done correctly.

I don't commute on my bike so consumption doesn't matter, but i must admit, a good tank range is nice.

The no brakes brigade. I didn't even know such a cult existed until recently.

Some people are plainly batshit keraazy.

Skub wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:50 am The no brakes brigade. I didn't even know such a cult existed until recently.

I clearly remember a couple of guys deciding to do a 'no brakes' session around Cadwell at a track day I attended in the early 90s, so it's not a new thing.

I often do no-brakes commutes, just 'cause.

It's way harder in the car EVs are a piece of piss though.

Engine braking doesn't wear the clutch out, that's another example of IAM not understanding how engines work.

mangocrazy wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:55 am

Skub wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:50 am The no brakes brigade. I didn't even know such a cult existed until recently.

I clearly remember a couple of guys deciding to do a 'no brakes' session around Cadwell at a track day I attended in the early 90s, so it's not a new thing.

It's almost as if some of these folk sit down and plan how they could best spoil a good thing,then tell everyone it's the correct way to operate.

Terry Pratchett material.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:57 am I often do no-brakes commutes, just 'cause.

It's way harder in the car EVs are a piece of piss though.

Yeah,we all play games like that,such as the cruise control game etc,but we don't go around proselyting or claiming to be 'the way'.

I consciously avoid using the brakes unless it's genuinely necessary, as one of my pet hates is following someone who is constantly dabbing the brakes as some kind of comfort blanket. But 'no brakes' - no thanks.

Whenever someone says "you can't brake into a corner" I just think of this pic

mangocrazy wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:36 am

Trinity765 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:19 am I am a fan of braking into corners. It's an art that gets ignored but to me, it's a skill and offers more control when used correctly. If I mention braking into corners I am often met with shock and horror and remarks about how dangerous that is.

I really don't understand that attitude. Appropriate use of the brakes is, as you say, a skill that not only makes you a quicker rider, but a safer one as well. One of the pleasures of riding a bike fast down a twisty road is knowing when to use the brakes and when to just use engine braking, and (when using the brakes) doing so in a manner that doesn't upset or destabilise the plot. Gradually easing off the brakes without upsetting the suspension as you peel into a corner is one of the most satisfying skills when done correctly.

That's how it plays out on the track. When you brake hard the forks dip, steepening the fork angle so bike turns in quicker.
Get the 2 together and it's perfect.

mangocrazy wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:55 am

Skub wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:50 am The no brakes brigade. I didn't even know such a cult existed until recently.

I clearly remember a couple of guys deciding to do a 'no brakes' session around Cadwell at a track day I attended in the early 90s, so it's not a new thing.

I bet they lost 20 seconds a lap.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:57 am Engine braking doesn't wear the clutch out, that's another example of IAM not understanding how engines work.

Genuine question - does engine braking cause quantifiable wear on gearbox teeth due to back loads, or is it so negligible as to be not worth even thinking about?