revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Earlier in this thread:

I wear a helite vest on track and on road. There’s a number of videos on YouTube that show them in a crash under test conditions and real that I watched before buying. I don’t think it will keep me injury free, didn’t buy it with that intention and don’t ride like I think I’m invulnerable. However if it reduces the severity of any injury and keeps me riding for longer as a result then it’s a worthwhile investment. Same as a helmet and decent gloves really, they’re just there to reduce the severity of an accident in most cases.

Horse wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:03 am

It appears airbag-equipped helmets are a genuine possibility:
https://www.rideapart.com/news/620204/a ... met-eicma/

Hot_Air wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:59 pm

Horse wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:03 am

It appears airbag-equipped helmets are a genuine possibility:
https://www.rideapart.com/news/620204/a ... met-eicma/

Horse wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:52 pm Airoh are developing an airbag helmet. I might even have posted about it ...

Fark. I've gone full iriot

v8-powered wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:50 pm https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-63608090

I saw that. Unless they invite him to crash again in exactly the same way minus airbag and examine the differences, how can they know that the airbag 'saved' him? It's simply speculation.

Surely damage to the leathers etc will give an idea of how he landed. And based on that they will have a fair idea of how helpful the air bag was? Saved might have been an over enthusiastic description, but the chances are it helped, no?

Noggin wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:24 pm Surely damage to the leathers etc will give an idea of how he landed. And based on that they will have a fair idea of how helpful the air bag was? Saved might have been an over enthusiastic description, but the chances are it helped, no?

You can't tell since there's nothing in the story to say anything about what happened. And I had a trainee break a leg, putting a foot down at walking pace. Injuries are unpredictable.

Sorry, it's the scientist in me coming out. If you're going to make a claim, you need a benchmark to test against. There's an airbag company who supply the police - probably the same one - who were making a similar 'saved his bacon' (did you see what I did there) claim when a police rider went onto the grass at relatively low speed and fell off.

I know how much I hurt myself when I highsided at 70+, and I know I've also fallen off at 40-odd mph and picked myself up with barely a bruise. It would have looked pretty spectacular but if you simply fall off the side and slide to a stop you're unlikely to damage yourself much. The airbag would still have gone off in either case... but claiming it 'saved me' would be daft.

I totally get that. LIke I said, I figure it's an 'over estimation' (I can't htink of the word I need right now!!).

But with no information on his fall/tumble/crash, we can't really say yeah or nay? Well, you can say nay, I prefer the "it probably helped a bit" version!!

Noggin wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:24 pm Surely damage to the leathers etc will give an idea of how he landed. And based on that they will have a fair idea of how helpful the air bag was? Saved might have been an over enthusiastic description, but the chances are it helped, no?

His bike doesn’t seem to have sustained much damage.

Horse wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:01 pm

Noggin wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:24 pm Surely damage to the leathers etc will give an idea of how he landed. And based on that they will have a fair idea of how helpful the air bag was? Saved might have been an over enthusiastic description, but the chances are it helped, no?

His bike doesn’t seem to have sustained much damage.

Ah, well, we all know that if the bike doesn't have much damage, then the rider will be totally fine

I know I'm being argumentative, but to dismiss it completely with zero info is as bad as saying it's awesomely wonderful whilst providing no info. Well, it is to me!

Noggin wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:06 pm

Horse wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:01 pm

Noggin wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:24 pm Surely damage to the leathers etc will give an idea of how he landed. And based on that they will have a fair idea of how helpful the air bag was? Saved might have been an over enthusiastic description, but the chances are it helped, no?

His bike doesn’t seem to have sustained much damage.

Ah, well, we all know that if the bike doesn't have much damage, then the rider will be totally fine

I know I'm being argumentative, but to dismiss it completely with zero info is as bad as saying it's awesomely wonderful whilst providing no info. Well, it is to me!

Which is why I looked for supplementary information, and all that's available is that photo.

The bike has suffered damage on the left (the blue lamp is displaced. However, not as much as it would if it had tumbled (either end to end or sideways).

Also the barrier looks to be deformed, although the post at that point seems upright rather than angled.

Horse wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:35 pm

Noggin wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:06 pm

Horse wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:01 pm

His bike doesn’t seem to have sustained much damage.

Ah, well, we all know that if the bike doesn't have much damage, then the rider will be totally fine

I know I'm being argumentative, but to dismiss it completely with zero info is as bad as saying it's awesomely wonderful whilst providing no info. Well, it is to me!

Which is why I looked for supplementary information, and all that's available is that photo.

The bike has suffered damage on the left (the blue lamp is displaced. However, not as much as it would if it had tumbled (either end to end or sideways).

Also the barrier looks to be deformed, although the post at that point seems upright rather than angled.

If the rider was off the bike (or not properly on the bike) and caught between the bike and the barrier, I guess the airbag could well have helped?


And, whilst all that is available for now is that photo, surely it's worth hanging fire for more info before dissimissing the claims? (I am with you that the claims have probably been over egged, but I would rather know more before saying the airbag did nothing )

Noggin wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:06 pm I know I'm being argumentative, but to dismiss it completely with zero info is as bad as saying it's awesomely wonderful whilst providing no info. Well, it is to me!

I wasn't 'dismissing it completely' but what I was saying that with no additional information on what happened, there's absolutely nothing to support the claim being made FOR the airbag.

That's very different from stating "airbags don't work" - that's the opposite statement to "airbags saved me" and equally unsupportable without context.

That's why independent testing - like the CE standard for clothing and the SHARP tests for helmets - allow some confidence about how they perform.

The big problem is converting those result to the real world. The abrasion tests give you an insight into slide time.

There IS a CE standard for airbags, but like the CE standard for body armour, the units measure impact absorbsion and are pretty impenetrable. I did some calculations a few years back based on the published results for one leading brand and - assuming I did the conversions between the mixture of units being used (and no-one argued)- I calculated that a top notch chest protector would absorb the impact from something with the mass of a frozen chicken hitting the rider at 30 mph. Hit anything bigger or faster and the wearer will feel it.

To put it another way, it'll absorb most of the impact caused by falling from the height of a highside to the ground, but won't protect the mass of someone's body hitting a car at 30 mph or being run over by a truck.

Noggin wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:51 am
I know I'm being argumentative, but to dismiss it completely with zero info is as bad as saying it's awesomely wonderful whilst providing no info.

It's not just 'no info' from the news. As Spin says, is the abilities of the equipment to deal with life-threatening injuries. Manufacturers don't AFAIK provide any information on that.

Noggin wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:51 am If the rider was off the bike (or not properly on the bike) and caught between the bike and the barrier, I guess the airbag could well have helped?

From the photo, that was what I wondered. Thos sorts of barriers typically have big bolt heads above the surface that would definitely leave marks on the rider's gear.

That said, it's an RT, with panniers cylinder heads a fairing - leaving a large space about where the rider should be.

Noggin wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:51 am And, whilst all that is available for now is that photo, surely it's worth hanging fire for more info before dissimissing the claims?

See Spin's post.

Arguably they have more knowledge, information, crash impact etc than any of you or the pics, so they can base it upon years and years of experience and actually being there ? As well as seeing all the kit, the riders injuries, the impact marks on the kit...

So there's likely a LOT of information for the claims of the airbags doing their job... .you just haven't been given it.

weeksy wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:50 am Arguably they have more knowledge, information, crash impact etc than any of you or the pics, so they can base it upon years and years of experience and actually being there ? As well as seeing all the kit, the riders injuries, the impact marks on the kit...

So there's likely a LOT of information for the claims of the airbags doing their job... .you just haven't been given it.

Yup. Arguably yes, and that's roughly what has been said.

I've posted before that I heard a researcher talk about brain injury identification from analysis of the 'mechanism' (with use of medical imagery to check accuracy). One part of their work was to consider the effect of neck flexibility, acting as a shock absorber, to affect severity of brain injury.

We're currently at the level where all sorts of claims or inferences are being made, but not supported by evidence. Not helped by the promo videos where the stunt rider doesn't replicate how most/many riders would react, instead jumping off to avoid impact with a car.

Horse wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:02 am Yup. Arguably yes, and that's roughly what has been said.

Mmmm not so much...

weeksy wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:15 am

Horse wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:02 am Yup. Arguably yes, and that's roughly what has been said.

Mmmm not so much...

Fair enough. At least from my posts, that's what I wanted to get across.

If I didn't, then my fault for not being clear.

Well, one Police rider appears to have benefited from an air-bag vest - Just Stop Oil protests: Airbags saved motorbike officer hurt on M25

A motorbike police officer injured on the M25 amid climate protests was saved by airbags built into his clothing, his force has said.

The Essex Police officer was hurt in a collision which also involved two lorries at a rolling roadblock on Wednesday.

Police said the airbags were activated as he was thrown from his motorcycle.

The officer, who had 20 years' experience, was still recovering from his injuries, the force said.