Hub Centre Steering

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Tell her to pedal, and show her the brakes, that's all they really need, you'll just know when she's ready to move to a pedal bike, trust your instincts.

[Mr. Dazzle]

She ain't got pedals

I told her to brake but she got really upset because she thought I was telling her she'd broken it (she was 2 at the time). So I tell her to pull her stop handle now.

[Mr. Dazzle]

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Do you want the sort code?

If you could teach people to ride in a classroom people would learn how to be world champions at school. It'd certainly be alot cheaper than all that track time!

I don't disagree that you can lay out the principle and the idea of what they are supposed to do, but fundamentally they have to go and DO it, many times, to really learn it. Brains just don't learn how to do physical stuff by going through 'mental' exercises alone.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I meant when she moved to a pedal bike.
She's only 3 though, so tons of time, I think I was 9 or 10 before I could ride a bike, mostly caused by not having a bike to ride, a mate taught me rather than my parents.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I genuinely don't even remember learning. Fortunately its just like riding a bike!

[Horse]

I taught both my children to ride bicycles by telling them what to do (pedal) putting them on a bike, giving them a good shove and off they went, neither of them fell off, both got how to balance straight away, it's pretty easy if you go fast enough.

Don't you start. Spin and I already have to split the money 50:50.

FWIW, once someone is riding, you can't really introduce a new concept The classic example of this is when a total novice is shown how to get a bike moving. But without having been told how to stop

[Mr. Dazzle]

You pull the stop handle!

[Mr. Dazzle]

Honestly though, Horse and Spin must fall off all the bloody time. I'm amazed you can stay upright TBH.

Bike starts falling to the left. "What do I do again? Ah yes, apply firm pressure on the left handlebar with the palm of my left hand, thus countersteering to generate a reaction moment."

Meanwhile I just magically stay upright not thinking about it and humming the Batman theme.

[The Spin Doctor]

If you could teach people to ride in a classroom people would learn how to be world champions at school. It'd certainly be alot cheaper than all that track time!

That I DIDN'T claim to be able to do.

I don't disagree that you can lay out the principle and the idea of what they are supposed to do, but fundamentally they have to go and DO it, many times, to really learn it. Brains just don't learn how to do physical stuff by going through 'mental' exercises alone.

I agree almost entirely (although visualisation is a remarkably powerful training technique which allows the brain to 'experience' a real situation via the imagination alone - it's been a staple of sports psychology since the 1960s!). But you're now saying something VERY different from your earlier statement:

How do you ride a bike? As in, how do you actually stay on it? How do you corner, brake and all the rest of it? You can't explain it can you? No-one can, you just "do it".

So... we CAN explain it... and from our explanations non-riders CAN get on and ride. Not well, but at a beginner level.

[The Spin Doctor]

Tell her to pedal, and show her the brakes, that's all they really need, you'll just know when she's ready to move to a pedal bike, trust your instincts.

It doesn't always work. And when it doesn't work, it can create huge mental barriers.

I taught a 14 year old to cycle one summer. He was absolutely terrified of a bicycle because that's what his mates had told him when he was 9 or 10 and he first asked for one. And he just could NOT understand what the problem was when he kept falling off and hurting himself but everyone else could ride... and laughed at him.

So now, 14 years old, his mates were out and about on their bikes doing whatever young teens do and he was desperate to join them, but scared sh!tless of his bike, of looking an idiot in front of them, and of hurting himself again.

So I took him off to a playing field where there was loads of space and falling off wouldn't hurt so much, and did all the stuff I would do with a brand new trainee on a CBT to get a novice rider moving without crashing.

30 minutes later he was cycling. Wobbly, but he was riding.

[The Spin Doctor]

Honestly though, Horse and Spin must fall off all the bloody time. I'm amazed you can stay upright TBH.

Bike starts falling to the left. "What do I do again? Ah yes, apply firm pressure on the left handlebar with the palm of my left hand, thus countersteering to generate a reaction moment."

Meanwhile I just magically stay upright not thinking about it and humming the Batman theme.

I crashed... a lot... as a learner. I've still got some of the scars.

But I thought about each crash, and with a few exceptions, I've managed not to repeat the vast majority. How many people do you know who have the same crash over and over again?

[Mr. Dazzle]

My laptop for one.

[GuzziPaul]

While talking about FFE, I wonder how many Yamaha Nikens have sold?. It's meant to have more front end grip, the ability to brake later an crappy conditions but doesn't seem to have taken off for all the advantages. Would like to have a ride on one to see if it really is that good.

[Rockburner]

While talking about FFE, I wonder how many Yamaha Nikens have sold?. It's meant to have more front end grip, the ability to brake later an crappy conditions but doesn't seem to have taken off for all the advantages. Would like to have a ride on one to see if it really is that good.

I seem to remember seeing something that claimed it has a minimum diameter curve it can turn around - because there's a limit to the movement within the linkages. Might have been on the FortNine review video.

[The Spin Doctor]

While talking about FFE, I wonder how many Yamaha Nikens have sold?. It's meant to have more front end grip, the ability to brake later an crappy conditions but doesn't seem to have taken off for all the advantages. Would like to have a ride on one to see if it really is that good.

When I was out working on Shiny Side Up in New Zealand in 2019, Yamaha provided the bikes for us to ride between the venues - 5,000 kms in total. Dave Keilty got a Niken. I was supposed to have one too, but they only had one luggage kit in the country, so I got a Tracer 900 instead.

Dave wanted to hate it. It looked wrong, it was too heavy, it was too complicated. We'd done the lap of S Island and he was still underwhelmed by the whole experience. "It feels like a bike to ride, but if it feels like a bike, why not have a bike" was his summing-up.

Then he had to ride from from Hamilton to Wellington - that's around 500 km/ 300 miles and six hours almost all of which is on twisty roads - for a 21st birthday party. He left about 4pm and was back about 2pm the following day. Much of his ride to Wellington was in the dark, in pouring rain on roads which have the incredibly slippery end of summer polished patches. They're not fun in the light. When he got back, he was raving about the front end grip... no worries about slides on a corner he couldn't see because of the glare from a truck coming the other way, just tip-in and go.

That's what it's for.

[The Spin Doctor]

While talking about FFE, I wonder how many Yamaha Nikens have sold?. It's meant to have more front end grip, the ability to brake later an crappy conditions but doesn't seem to have taken off for all the advantages. Would like to have a ride on one to see if it really is that good.

I seem to remember seeing something that claimed it has a minimum diameter curve it can turn around - because there's a limit to the movement within the linkages. Might have been on the FortNine review video.

Can't be much worse than a Monster.

[Whysub]

[Horse]

If you could teach people to ride in a classroom people would learn how to be world champions at school. It'd certainly be alot cheaper than all that track time!

Well, I had bikes for 40+ years, my only transport for most of that. So lots of riding. Odd how I never thought "Yup, all those miles, I'd be an ace racer, world champion". And odd, too, how all the rest of the grid every year aren't world champion even though they get equal track time

Honestly though, Horse and Spin must fall off all the bloody time. I'm amazed you can stay upright TBH.

These days I struggle to even walk in a straight line (see the 'CVJ Titanium Upgrade' thread), let alone balance on two wheels.

Bike starts falling to the left. "What do I do again? Ah yes, apply firm pressure on the left handlebar with the palm of my left hand, thus countersteering to generate a reaction moment."

Thank you, that emphasises a lot of what has been said already, including:
- you can't learn something new mid-ride (even giving directions has to be planned and delivered allowing sufficient time and distance for the trainee to react), the best is to coach something that the trainee is expecting
- talking through like that can work for a sequence, but otherwise can be like telling yourself how to juggle, the words and thinking won't keep up with the speed of the actions
- moreso, there won't be time mid-bend to think "Hmm I need to tighten my line, what did the beardie bloke say?", you need to go into the bend expecting to need to steer and mentally prepared to do so
- practice makes permanent, so you need to consciously and continuously practice in low-stress cornering to stand any chance of a successful instinctive reaction

Or, as the expression goes, nota moment too soon

Meanwhile I just magically stay upright not thinking about it and humming the Batman theme.

Singing is very relaxing, can stop people becoming tense. I've posted a war story about using it as a training technique.

[Scootabout]

This thread caused me to dredge into the recesses of my memory. When I started riding in 1999 I fancied one, but felt too old for it even then:
https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/sear ... tion=click

[Scootabout]

I genuinely don't even remember learning. Fortunately its just like riding a bike!

I do. I actually learnt to use a scooter (for clarity, the sort you push with your feet) first, and when I could balance that I found I could balance a bike.