Supersport gap filler: Yamaha MT-07 dresses up to replace R6

[weeksy]

And I really can't see the point of a quickshifter on the road.

braaaaap,braaaaap,braaaaaap. That's all the point they need

[The Spin Doctor]

And I really can't see the point of a quickshifter on the road.

braaaaap,braaaaap,braaaaaap. That's all the point they need

Here's a challenge - fit one to a Mk1 Guzzi Le Mans

If it avoids the '1st - neutral - 2nd - neutral - 3rd - neutral - 4th - neutral - 5th' shift pattern I'm sold

[Yorick]

I personally think electronics are a good idea as a bit of safety net. ie if you get it wrong and panic brake or might save you from a slide that might otherwise have you off. I don't think I'd ever view them as a performance aid. On that basis if the R7 had them I'd be happy with it, but equally it not having TC/QS etc wouldn't stop me buying one if I wanted one. But having never had TC it's not something I view as essential. A good ABS system would be more attractive for me than TC.

ABS I'm in favour of (and I'll admit I've been converted on that one) - I lost count of the number of front end crashes I had as a courier, which would have been saved by ABS.

But traction control I'm less convinced about.

And I really can't see the point of a quickshifter on the road.

Oh bollox. Me and uncle Spin think the same.

Pass me a Werthers Original.

[weeksy]

And I really can't see the point of a quickshifter on the road.

braaaaap,braaaaap,braaaaaap. That's all the point they need

Here's a challenge - fit one to a Mk1 Guzzi Le Mans

If it avoids the '1st - neutral - 2nd - neutral - 3rd - neutral - 4th - neutral - 5th' shift pattern I'm sold

It's not Houdini.

[weeksy]

Naive question, I know it cuts the ignition but doesnt a QS stuffing it into gear increase wear on the gearbox?

Thats acceptable on a track bike but not what you want on the road, least of all on what is a commuter/sporty tourer/UJM

There's a LOT of stuff on that.... but the general thoughts of the people who know shit, not really no, arguably it's even better potentially.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Doubt if a quick shifter wears the gearbox, I've done clutchless up changes for years and not had any gearbox problems.

[Ditchfinder]

I once did a clutchless shift on my Guzzi without hitting a neutral ya know

Tru story bro

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I once did a clutchless shift on my Guzzi without hitting a neutral ya know

Tru story bro

Yeah, and I did one on my Z1170 with it's combine harvester gearbox, you have to have an engine with a good spread of power because changing gear is unpleasant

[Tricky]

Any of these threads where current bike electronic aids start getting discussed seem to have largely the same few people chiming in with the same responses, and I'm normally one of them so I guess I may as well too

Electronics sells bikes these days

I wonder?

While motorcycle journalists and magazines demand electronics, I imagine it's because they need things to write about. But how much difference do electronics make when it comes to regular customers? Yes, I can see the value in ABS and traction control, but I don't feel the need to reprogram them before every ride.

My bike has more electronics than the starship Enterprise, but the electronics made sod all difference when choosing what to buy. Even in winter, I leave it in Sport mode, and that's that. The electronics only make a difference after I've changed the battery and need to reprogram everything, then the complexity makes the electronics a hassle.

I'm the same, except I don't see them as a hassle at all . Modes, TC , downshift blippers and ABS can be great aids, but of all of the electronics on current bikes, if I could only have one, it would without doubt be an upwards quickshifter

Some of us don't want electronics.

on the vast majority of bikes that have electronics, they can all be switched off or easily disabled. You'd think a bike designed more for lower level riders would arguable benefit more from electronics too.

Learner bikes don't need that stuff or you'll never learn to ride properly and become too dependent on the stuff.

Complete bollocks from someone who is by his own admission largely lacking in experience of what he's talking about here....

Some of us don't want electronics.

Seconded, if you could buy a non ABS model I'd be getting it, all it does is add weight and complexity, I don't want traction control, amazingly I can control the throttle on a 70bhp 700cc twin.

Performance wise my 30 year old FZR400 will kick it's arse, as it has nearly the same power, less weight and better aerodynamics, if I buy one of these, and I do fancy one, it'll be used a sports tourer, I see no reason to take it on track where a 20 year old R6 would leave it for dead and cost a quarter of the price.

I agree with the first bit of your post, definitely not the second, it did make me smile- I'll eat my pants if your old FZR400 will kick the MT07-R thing's arse in any form of dynamic aspect either on road or track

The ABS on the front of mine takes some braking power away. But it's a pain to take off and bypass. If I was in the rainy UK it might be useful, but not here.

The rear ABS is quite good as the rear can lock up when berserk braking on track. But I never use a back brake anyway

Err, how do you know then? ;

While I’m glad to have ABS and traction control, particularly on cold and wet winter evenings, I feel we’re losing something with all this tech. Whether it’s blipping the throttle to match revs with engine speed or finessing the brakes, learning and applying these skills has added to my riding pleasure. (Incidentally, the same goes for advanced riding: striving to be smooth and inch-perfect with my road riding lines has added considerably to the fun of riding on the road.)

Usually, I'm an early tech adopter and gadget-lover (I bought an airbag before you could say ‘Hot Air’ ). But more riding technology can mean less riding involvement. And where’s the fun in that?

As Weeksy says, using the QS either up or down isn't compulsary, nothing stopping you manually matching engine and gearbos speed or finessing the brakes etc, but when you either really want to pin it, or just be lazy, I think they are brilliant things to have.
It's standard functionality in the ECU on just about every bike that's made these days, so the guts of the functionality is there even if you don't pay for it to be unlocked or your bike doesn't have the external sensor/switches etc fitted

OR does it just mean you can go faster without crashing ?

I think it just means riders ride closer to the edge with no idea when they'll cross it.

No, not in most cases IMO- the ones who run off tracks or crash through being hamfisted are still likely to do it with electronics, most will never even even get it cutting in, unless they have it on a very intrusive setting, as Yorick obviously did on his- Couchy puts it best IMO-

I often wonder if anyone who comments on modern electronics has ever ridden one in anger and tried to make the cut in ? 90% of those on a Trackday won’t ever trouble abs or traction control. View them as a performance aide and try to use them as such and they are superb, you can still crash if you give it full throttle exiting a corner as a mate did last week. But get smoothly on the gas earlier and earlier and eventually, they’ll kick in. But the limit is very high and takes a lot of reaching

Yup

I'm not a fast rider and I had to turn the ABS and traction off on my MV when I was on the track, it was too intrusive and I shat myself when it completely took the brakes off me at the end of the straight for about a second (which is a long time at that speed)...............

Hmmm, I've not ridden any of the current MV triples but that sounds shit, and a lot more shit than any system I've used- you sure there wasn't something wrong with it?

And I really can't see the point of a quickshifter on the road.

braaaaap,braaaaap,braaaaaap. That's all the point they need

Exactly that- it's fun and addictive

Naive question, I know it cuts the ignition but doesn't a QS stuffing it into gear increase wear on the gearbox?

That's acceptable on a track bike but not what you want on the road, least of all on what is a commuter/sporty tourer/UJM

As Weeksy says, it's a good question, one I've often wondered about, but as Weeksy also says, decent current systems arguably give the gearbox an easier time than not having one.
Definitely is relevant to the age and design of the mechanicals though too I'm sure, and not every gearbox is suited to having one- I suspect Spin's example of an old Guzzi would be something that really would not be suited to a QS, along with old BMW airheads and just about all Harleys-
even the current model ones I've ridden have had simply atrocious slow and agricultural feeling gearboxes.

But back on topic, I think it's a real looker and should be a real fun bike- assuming it does appear, could be the one to tempt me back onto a sports bike....

[Dodgy69]

The Yamaha front abs definitely kicks in early compared to some bikes. Do you want it at the end of the straight ?. Your trying to judge it and brake late, maybe overtaking, then abs kicks in and puts you in shit street. I even release and grab again to stop the judder, horrid.

Cornering abs is more useful. Leaning into a corner is where the help is needed. Shirley.

[The Spin Doctor]

Learner bikes don't need that stuff or you'll never learn to ride properly and become too dependent on the stuff.

Complete bollocks from someone who is by his own admission largely lacking in experience of what he's talking about here....

Well, actually I'm with Yorick on this.

Learn on a basic bike, gain the skills needed to ride that well first, then you'll understand what the advanced aids do and how (and IF) you can actually exploit them.

If all you do is let the bike take care of all your problems, you're not really in control of it... and when the bike encounters an issue it CAN'T solve - like a slick surface - you'll find you're in trouble.

Case in point. I see way too many riders on 1000cc-plus bikes who haven't the faintest clue how to use a gearbox. They argue "I need a powerful bike to make it easy to ride" completely failing to understand thrust curves.

I think it just means riders ride closer to the edge with no idea when they'll cross it.

No, not in most cases IMO- the ones who run off tracks or crash through being hamfisted are still likely to do it with electronics, most will never even even get it cutting in, unless they have it on a very intrusive setting, as Yorick obviously did on his- Couchy puts it best IMO-

I'm still talking about the road here.

I often wonder if anyone who comments on modern electronics has ever ridden one in anger and tried to make the cut in ? 90% of those on a Trackday won’t ever trouble abs or traction control. View them as a performance aide and try to use them as such and they are superb, you can still crash if you give it full throttle exiting a corner as a mate did last week. But get smoothly on the gas earlier and earlier and eventually, they’ll kick in. But the limit is very high and takes a lot of reaching

Yup

As I said, I would have liked the traction control to do something when I lost the backend mid-corner on the latest model V-Strom. It did nowt. I saved that one the old-fashioned way! Luck!

And I really can't see the point of a quickshifter on the road.

braaaaap,braaaaap,braaaaaap. That's all the point they need

Exactly that- it's fun and addictive

I suppose it's like programming a 3D printer. I'm sure that's fun. But it's also fun to make something the old-fashioned way by hand. And to me at least, far more rewarding.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

In answer to Tricky, yeah, you're probably right, I thought the R7 was going to be a lot more MT07 in a frock, having read a bit more about it, looks like it's going to be more of a supersport bike, which is a shame because I quite fancied it when I thought it was going to be a big R3.

[weeksy]

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorc ... de-review/



Not long ago, the arrival of a fresh crop of all-new 600cc inline-four machines from Japan’s Big Four was something riders could look forward to each year. The middleweight repli-racer craze may have vanished, and the sales with it, but Yamaha’s looking to put an end to the middleweight supersport blues with the introduction of the all-new 2022 Yamaha YZF-R7.

Diminishing sales—December 2020 sales were only 22 percent of July’s peak, according to Yamaha—combined with rising MSRPs have seriously hurt the middleweight supersport category. Yamaha, recognizing the need for change, created the YZF-R7 as a budget-friendly new approach to the segment, targeting the less experienced rider without sacrificing the fun factor and hardcore image of the supersport glory days. And it’s available for a relatively affordable $8,999 price tag.

As an approachable basis for the Yamaha YZF-R7, bLU cRU engineers stepped away from the difficult-to-ride inline-four screamers and built upon the highly successful MT-07 platform. Then they carefully tweaked the new bike, incorporating meaningful supersport-minded technical changes without substantially increasing costs. One notable aspect of the R7 is how it shares one of the most versatile yet entertaining modern powerplants, the 689cc parallel-twin CP2, with Yamaha’s MT and Ténéré 700. This engine has become a favorite around the Cycle World offices for its punchy yet tractable character, which comes through loud and clear in the YZF-R7.

For reference, the last MT-07 tested on our in-house Dynojet 250i dyno produced 67 peak horsepower and 46 pound-feet of torque; the YZF-R7 is expected to be nearly identical. Spec sheet spies might bark at these relatively modest figures, but this twin offers entertaining, educational, balanced power without the intimidation of inline-fours. Initial throttle response is crisp and connection to the rear wheel is immediate without the use of any electronic rider aids; acceleration is smooth and linear as it rips toward its 10,200-rpm redline, approaching speeds of 120 mph. Really, who needs more? The power delivery is broad, the speed is exciting without being intimidating, and without massive horsepower to fall back on, rider skill in carrying corner speed is necessary to making good time. Smooth is fast.

The engine is nearly identical to the MT-07′s, but with the YZF-R7, Yamaha has updated the CP2 with an assist/slipper clutch for the first time. The new clutch is said to reduce clutch pull by 20 percent while serving as a tool to reduce back torque on deceleration by reducing the effects of engine-braking. The slipper clutch lends itself to smooth, wheels-in-line corner entry, even when pushing the boundaries of braking zones. Gripes regarding the R7′s six-speed transmission concern a lack of positive shift feel during gear changes. Our test unit was fitted with a plug-’n’-play quickshifter, available as a $200 option from Yamaha’s parts catalog. Quick action at the shift lever aided efficient acceleration and corner exits.

Supersport focus requires pinpoint handling and confidence, so Yamaha adapted the existing MT-07 chassis with several cost-effective updates aimed at sharpening steering geometry and increasing rigidity. The rake has been increased from 24.8 to 23.7 degrees and trail was reduced by 2mm to 88mm or 3.5 inches. Triple clamp offset shrinks to 35mm from 40mm. These changes result in a 5mm-shorter wheelbase despite the rear sprocket decreasing to a taller 42 teeth. Finally, a set of aluminum braces at the swingarm pivot increase torsional rigidity for a more planted ride.

The result? A chassis with an any-apex-anytime feel that boosts confidence in a way even track-prepped MT-07s couldn’t. At a claimed 414 pounds fully fueled, the YZF-R7 is 8 pounds heavier than the MT, but is more nimble and more than willing to tackle quick side-to-side transitions and midcorner corrections. It also does so without requiring serious upper body strength to capitalize on its sporty handling; think less energy per lap and more laps total.

Yamaha also says the YZF-R7 is the narrowest R-series model ever built. The fuel tank and side cowlings are slim, for a sleek look and feel; it’s more relatable as an oversized YZF-R3 than a scaled-down YZF-R6. It’s tight between the legs and an appropriate fit for my racer-sized 5-foot-7-inch frame. The aggressive control position is also favorable; modeled after the outgoing YZF-R6, the lower stance is sporty and allows the R7 to be hustled underneath you, while the clip-on handlebars are positioned slightly higher to reduce fatigue, a positive for everyday street riding.

A fully adjustable 41mm KYB fork matches the newfound rigidity of the frame while offering a strong balance of support and small-bump compliance at the racetrack. For the vast majority of riders, this bike will provide confidence-inspiring feel at trackday pace. It wasn’t until it faced the stress of battling it out with four-time AMA Superbike champ and bLU cRU ambassador Josh Hayes that the fork struggled with load, chattering sometimes in transition from trail-braking to neutral throttle. Adding two turns of preload to the shock helped balance the motorcycle’s load during tip-in, boosting feel and consistency on hard corner entries.

And as there were a lot of quick corner entries, it’s a good thing the bike had the strong stopping power of dual Advics four-piston calipers and 298mm discs up front. The YZF-R7 is fitted with a Brembo radial front master cylinder, although feel at the lever struggles to precisely communicate brake pressure. Nonswitchable ABS comes standard and seems to have been calibrated for a balanced level of intrusion, though it did hinder outright stopping performance when rolling serious laps.

Since the YZF-R7 packs the same addictive punch and riding experience as the rest of Yamaha’s R-series models, it’s fortunate that it also looks the part. The horizontal fairings and open tailsection echo the modern styling first seen on the 2015 YZF-R1 while delivering the level of fit and finish we’ve come to expect of the bLU cRU. A clearly legible R7-specific LCD display in front of the handlebars adds to the race-inspired feel.

The 2022 YZF-R7′s excellent combination of performance, versatility, and quality finds a sweet all-around balance: newer riders get a bike that’s easy to control as they hone their skills; experienced rippers get a machine that’s still serious fun; and the relatively reasonable MSRP will allow for more track time. The YZF-R7 may not pack the race-inspired cutting-edge capabilities of the inline-four screamers, and it might require an open mind of die-hard sportbike riders. But it represents an approachable, practical sporting option that should lift the spirits of the class and put an end to the supersport blues.

[Mussels]

For something that's meant to be a SS600 replacement that's the first time I've seen top speed mentioned.

approaching speeds of 120 mph. Really, who needs more?

Have bike journalists got too old or are they just saying what Yamaha want so they get a long term test bike?

[KungFooBob]

I liked how they mention how intimidating Inline fours are

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

120 mph on 67bhp is a bit slow, I'd expect 135 with that power and a fairing.

[Supermofo]

My 690 probably has somewhere between 65-67bhp. I saw 123 on the clock once and it's fairly accurate but reckon on maybe 115 real MPH? But it does have the aerodynamics of a block of flats.

The MT range is all about the midrange too so doubt Yam have done anything to the power delivery so 120 wouldn't surprise me. Bout the same as an SV too.

[KungFooBob]

The 90's JDM 400's were all capped at 60bhp. Most would hit 130 on a good day (unless they still have the speed restrictor enabled), the ZXR400 was supposed to be good for 140.

[weeksy]

i think also within a month or two it'll get a remap out there along with a free flowing exhaust.

Happily the Yamaha guys at Silverstone are getting one we can hire for a session, hopefully this year too. I'll deffo be sending Mrs Weeksy out for a session on it.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

The 90's JDM 400's were all capped at 60bhp. Most would hit 130 on a good day (unless they still have the speed restrictor enabled), the ZXR400 was supposed to be good for 140.

I've seen 140 on the speedo of a ZXR400, took a long time to get there, and the high gearing spoiled the bike, my GSXR400 would do about 135mph, I think my FZR will do 130, maybe a bit more, and NC30s do about the same.

Early faired SV650s also indicated 130 - 135.
I think top speed of this will be about 130, I'm tempted by one, but it will mostly come down to riding position.