revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Horse wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:02 am

gremlin wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:53 am

Horse wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:43 am to form water as its only emission...

Der...rising sea levels...

Durr ... they use water to get the hydrogen

Ahhh. Gotcha. Anyway, all over it. Just been to pick up my new hydrogen car.

As I've said loads of times now, I think it's very likely that if Hydrogen FC vehicles become popular they'll still have batteries. Fuel cells can't do regen braking, and just like an ICE they work best when running at steady load. Therefore it makes sense to have an FC and batteries. You'll probably also find that charging a battery slowly overnight is cheaper than filling up with Hydrogen, thus you'll have cars with the option to do either.

Hybrid hydrogen FC cars don't carry the same expense and weight penalty as hybrid ICE ones. In present hybrids you need an ICE and it's fuel tank, then a motor and it's fuel tank (i.e. the battery) so you double up on everything. Hydrogen FC vehicles will use the same electric motor powertrains as BEVs so the motor essentially can draw power from two different fuel tanks and there's much less doubling up.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:14 am As I've said loads of times now, I think it's very likely that if Hydrogen FC vehicles become popular they'll still have batteries......etc

Sounds good. I'll wait for those to become readily available at competitive prices.

PS The other thing that will encourage switching is when lots of petrol stations stop selling which will inevitably happen as demand drops.

Count Steer wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:25 pm
PS The other thing that will encourage switching is when lots of petrol stations stop selling which will inevitably happen as demand drops.

And the fuel companies are already investing in e- charging.

One hundred plus years ago I bet some old duffers were exchanging letters along the lines of, 'I like them new horseless carriages, but the infrastructure ain't there yet. Until such time as all hardware shops and farrier-types have that 'petrol' I'm not trading Dobin in yet...'

Soon we'll all be dust in the ground and teleportation will be the norm.

Back in the day there were IC engines and steam engines. The front runner was steam.

I may wait a bit before I bet on electric v hydrogen v whatever comes next.

Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:52 pm Back in the day there were IC engines and steam engines. The front runner was steam.

The electric motor is often credited to Hungarian engineer Anyos Jedlik, while French physicist Gaston Plane invented commercial, rechargeable lead-acid batteries in 1859. It took an Englishman – Thomas Parker – to combine the two in a carriage to create the first production electric car, built in London in 1884.

To really get a sense of the early impact of the electric car, though, it’s best to look stateside. The years around the turn of the 20th century are often described as a golden age of electric motoring, due to a strong EV presence on the streets of US cities. In 1897, the first commercial users of electric carriages were New York City taxi drivers; the city’s fleet eventually grew to over 60 electric cabs. Some historians estimate that around a third of cars on American streets in 1900 were electric, while some sources claim EVs outsold combustion cars in 1899 and 1900.

wheelnut wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:16 pm Just watching the guy Martin thingy now. Supercharger thing at Gretna - meant to take 18 mins to charge it up but took an hour and £40 - for 170 mile range!

Was a bit of a disaster really wasn't it... Cost was more than double what i'd expect for the Mondeo for a journey...

weeksy wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:24 am

wheelnut wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:16 pm Just watching the guy Martin thingy now. Supercharger thing at Gretna - meant to take 18 mins to charge it up but took an hour and £40 - for 170 mile range!

Was a bit of a disaster really wasn't it... Cost was more than double what i'd expect for the Mondeo for a journey...

There are some great claims/statements being made about the number of chargers in the uk, but the issue seems to be their reliability.

However, as the 'electric forecourts' are developed, that should ease the situation.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... s-in-essex

It is the first of more than 100 electric forecourts that Gridserve, a clean energy company, plans to roll out across the country over the next five years

Horse wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:47 am

weeksy wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:24 am

wheelnut wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:16 pm Just watching the guy Martin thingy now. Supercharger thing at Gretna - meant to take 18 mins to charge it up but took an hour and £40 - for 170 mile range!

Was a bit of a disaster really wasn't it... Cost was more than double what i'd expect for the Mondeo for a journey...

There are some great claims/statements being made about the number of chargers in the uk, but the issue seems to be their reliability.

However, as the 'electric forecourts' are developed, that should ease the situation.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... s-in-essex

It is the first of more than 100 electric forecourts that Gridserve, a clean energy company, plans to roll out across the country over the next five years

Well yes... but that's not now...

wheelnut wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:16 pm Just watching the guy Martin thingy now. Supercharger thing at Gretna - meant to take 18 mins to charge it up but took an hour and £40 - for 170 mile range!

Yeah, because in no way did the TV production company look to create some suspense and angst deliberately did they?

"Man plugs in car in charger and has a cup of coffee (sorry, tea...chief) while car charges quickly and hassle free" doesn't really make for good TV.

millemille wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:02 am

wheelnut wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:16 pm Just watching the guy Martin thingy now. Supercharger thing at Gretna - meant to take 18 mins to charge it up but took an hour and £40 - for 170 mile range!

Yeah, because in no way did the TV production company look to create some suspense and angst deliberately did they?

"Man plugs in car in charger and has a cup of coffee (sorry, tea...chief) while car charges quickly and hassle free" doesn't really make for good TV.

But it didn't.... well, unless they're blatently lying... it was slow... and very expensive...

weeksy wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:03 am

millemille wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:02 am

wheelnut wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:16 pm Just watching the guy Martin thingy now. Supercharger thing at Gretna - meant to take 18 mins to charge it up but took an hour and £40 - for 170 mile range!

Yeah, because in no way did the TV production company look to create some suspense and angst deliberately did they?

"Man plugs in car in charger and has a cup of coffee (sorry, tea...chief) while car charges quickly and hassle free" doesn't really make for good TV.

But it didn't.... well, unless they're blatently lying... it was slow... and very expensive...

I think the suggestion is that it was edited that way.

I once had to pay 15p a litre more for petrol in a garage by the side of dual carriageway 'cause I had no other choice. They didn't have the fancy high octane stuff I wanted either. The c*nts. Petrol engines are obviously a stupid idea.

Rule number 1 for watching TV: first and foremost, it's 'entertainment'.



There may well have been a lot of truth in what happened. But if they had an hour to fill (less adverts, title sequence, credits, 'coming up next', etc), then that sequence was stretched or shortened according to the amount of material they had and the story they wanted to tell.

During episode seven of series 12, Clarkson presented a segment featuring the Tesla Roadster, including a test drive. The segment showed the car's provided batteries running flat after 88.5 kilometres (55.0 mi), with Clarkson claiming that the recharge would take 16 hours. Following this, he claimed that the car then broke down. Tesla Motors spokesperson stated that the cars provided never reached less than 20% charge, none needed to be pushed off the track at any point, the recharge time was 3.5 hours, and the brake failure shown in the segment was actually a blown fuse. The BBC responded to these claims with a statement saying, "The tested Tesla was filmed being pushed into the shed in order to show what would happen if the Roadster had run out of charge. Top Gear stands by the findings in this film and is content that it offers a fair representation of the Tesla's performance on the day it was tested", without addressing the other concerns.

Horse wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:47 am There are some great claims/statements being made about the number of chargers in the uk, but the issue seems to be their reliability.

However, as the 'electric forecourts' are developed, that should ease the situation.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... s-in-essex

It is the first of more than 100 electric forecourts that Gridserve, a clean energy company, plans to roll out across the country over the next five years

And when they are reality (and reality nationally) I will be happy to buy an EV. As long as they sort the range issue too.

I am planning to go to Scotland next month, first leg is a 350 mile drive. I doubt I will do it non-stop (although I might if I was driving alone) but I want to be able to stop when and where I, or more accurately Mrs CJ, wants to, not have to plan around electric forecourts.

Whilst in Scotland I will be going to some fairly remote places. They might have an electric charger, they might not. I am going on holiday, I don't want the hassle of planning it like a military operation

I'm not arguing against you. I rarely make long trips (beware, though, I'm in Cornwall next week), but would have the same concerns. And that was the point of that post: there is an extensive network of chargers - but, right now, it's not sufficient.

From the article, their intent is to make them more like motorway service areas than 'petrol stations'. So mrs CJ gets a T&P stop while the car is charging.

FWIW, everyone's concentration drops after 2 hours continuous driving, badly after 3.

millemille wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:02 am

wheelnut wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:16 pm Just watching the guy Martin thingy now. Supercharger thing at Gretna - meant to take 18 mins to charge it up but took an hour and £40 - for 170 mile range!

Yeah, because in no way did the TV production company look to create some suspense and angst deliberately did they?

"Man plugs in car in charger and has a cup of coffee (sorry, tea...chief) while car charges quickly and hassle free" doesn't really make for good TV.

It did tally fairly well with guests we had staying with us recently in a BEV...we've had quite a lot of them this season.
The wife and kids were stressed because their dad was stressed at finding most of the electric charging points north of Glasgow either busy or not working.

No.1 son has taken over a 50kW electric charging point as part of a lease. He's not used it himself but has been presented with a £280 bill but no corresponding income as yet.

The infrastructure will get there no doubt, and we'll try to help it get there, but at the moment it doesn't make for stress-free touring.

I'm right on the other end of the EV convenience scale I think.

As I said ages ago, I'm pretty sure my next car will be an EV. Hopefully sooner rather than later if the new scheme at work is good.

During my thinking on this subject I've considered how many long journeys I do. Thinking back over the last 10 years I think I've done a >350 mile day once. Even that day had about 6 hours of hanging around in the middle. Other than that, even a 200 mile day would be pretty unusual for me. A 200 mile day without at least a few hour break somewhere is almost unheard of.

I've got a young child and I obviously plan on having her around for a bit, so I'm not at all concerned about touring/driving holidays.

I can park and charge off road at home. There are also half a dozen fast chargers within 5 mins walk of my house. There're dozens more around the city. Pretty much every brand that sells an EV worth having has a dealer in MK.

TBF I think Milton Keynes has been scored/rated/defined as the top place in the UK to own an EV a few times now.