So how do I persuade the wife that 74bhp is enough for her

[Count Steer]

I agree, it's a dilemma on low powered bikes and there's no easy answer. After years of 690s I can relate

I know there are limits on time available etc but wouldn't it make sense to split novices groups at, say, 100bhp?

That way the handy rider with 75-80bhp isn't stuck with the sort of 200bhp rider that 3d-bits all the corners and beans it on all the straights etc.

<devils advocate>Put a blanket 100bhp limit on the novices groups. If you're a novice, what exactly are you going to do with a 200bhp bike anyway? </da>

TBH it isn't a big problem for me, I can always find space to ride away from other people, I'll usually go out at the front of the group, and at Snetterton by the end of the session I'm lapping the people on 200 bhp bikes, at Cadwell I'm catching them up halfway through the session, so I pull into the pits, have a little break and go out again.

You're not actually a novice though.

It would be interesting to see, if some track day outfit did restricted bhp sessions, if more people would turn out. Personally, I'd be more tempted to go if there were sessions with better matched bike and rider capabilities.

(I think I'd learn more trying to hustle a lower powered bike around rather than playing 'twist and hang on' too).

[weeksy]

Problem is the risk factor for organiser, they know they'll fill all groups all day in standard 3 group setup

[wull]

It’s not all about the power or the speeds of the bikes but the experience of the rider and their track sense, their lines etc. i have no problem dealing with slower riders when their predictable which is what you get with good riders on slower bikes, you know what line they will take etc etc.

It’s the dangerous fuckers and they can be on anything whether it be a 200bhp superbike or 52bhp CB500.

[weeksy]

It’s not all about the power or the speeds of the bikes but the experience of the rider and their track sense, their lines etc. i have no problem dealing with slower riders when their predictable which is what you get with good riders on slower bikes, you know what line they will take etc etc.

It’s the dangerous fuckers and they can be on anything whether it be a 200bhp superbike or 52bhp CB500.

No, but it can be less fun for people on smaller capacity/power bikes being destroyed on the straights and held up on braking/corners.

[Supermofo]

On the R6 at Snetterton the litre bikes would be hauling down the straights. The R6 got dropped easily by RSV4s and the like. That was in inters.

The one time I was in fast was due to BSB being at Snet the next day and so I was in with a load of practicing national/club racers as they ran only 2 groups. I could have passed 1 person. He was on a Manx Norton, but I knew he'd bugger off in the twisties so I throttled off till the twisty section, gave him 30 sec and then went. Else I'd have nailed him and then become an obstacle.

[Count Steer]

It’s not all about the power or the speeds of the bikes but the experience of the rider and their track sense, their lines etc. i have no problem dealing with slower riders when their predictable which is what you get with good riders on slower bikes, you know what line they will take etc etc.

So, in the novices group they should only have 'good riders' with experience, track sense and good lines.
Where does a novice go to learn those skills before they come on track?
It sounds like the problem is that the novices groups have novices in! Or worse, the other groups have!!

[weeksy]

There is no 'problem' as such, they work fine. It's just the sometimes there's a crossover.

Less experienced riders can do full on Novice days, or can do road bike days so no warmers and track bikes. Both encourage a bit less of the race gods.

[wull]

It’s not all about the power or the speeds of the bikes but the experience of the rider and their track sense, their lines etc. i have no problem dealing with slower riders when their predictable which is what you get with good riders on slower bikes, you know what line they will take etc etc.

So, in the novices group they should only have 'good riders' with experience, track sense and good lines.
Where does a novice go to learn those skills before they come on track?
It sounds like the problem is that the novices groups have novices in! Or worse, the other groups have!!

I wasn’t replying to your comment as such, of course new riders go in Novice etc. what I’m saying which is because I thought it was eluded to in a previous comment is a slower bike doesn’t mean that rider has to take that bike into Novice, that’s the point I was making. I’m saying it boils down to experience and ability and that person who is good etc with good lines should be in their usual group even on a 52bhp bike.

[wull]

It’s not all about the power or the speeds of the bikes but the experience of the rider and their track sense, their lines etc. i have no problem dealing with slower riders when their predictable which is what you get with good riders on slower bikes, you know what line they will take etc etc.

It’s the dangerous fuckers and they can be on anything whether it be a 200bhp superbike or 52bhp CB500.

No, but it can be less fun for people on smaller capacity/power bikes being destroyed on the straights and held up on braking/corners.

That’s true but it also adds to the fun when you harass bigger bikes. It’s a bigger issue on open pit lane days.

[weeksy]

That’s true but it also adds to the fun when you harass bigger bikes.

It does yes But sometimes when i've gone in novice on the 690 I do feel a little guilty.

I've had a few tellings off for my overtaking style, but my options with a top end of 110mph were fairly limited on where i could and couldn't overtake.

I even got told off on the XSR900 last time out at Silverstone.

[wull]

That’s true but it also adds to the fun when you harass bigger bikes.

It does yes But sometimes when i've gone in novice on the 690 I do feel a little guilty.

I've had a few tellings off for my overtaking style, but my options with a top end of 110mph were fairly limited on where i could and couldn't overtake

I even got told off on the XSR900 last time out at Silverstone.

See I reckon you should still be going in your usual group, but with that being said you won’t be the issue, the bigger problems that I have came across is people who should be in the lower group but go in the group above.

[weeksy]

That’s true but it also adds to the fun when you harass bigger bikes.

It does yes But sometimes when i've gone in novice on the 690 I do feel a little guilty.

I've had a few tellings off for my overtaking style, but my options with a top end of 110mph were fairly limited on where i could and couldn't overtake

I even got told off on the XSR900 last time out at Silverstone.

See I reckon you should still be going in your usual group, but with that being said you won’t be the issue, the bigger problems that I have came across is people who should be in the lower group but go in the group above.

My usual group is open to debate.. Sometimes i'm too fast for most of novice, but too slow for most of inters. However mostly i go in inters and accept i won't be overtaking many in a session.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

The above goes for me, I'm faster than most of Novice, but slower than most of Inters, so I think "fuck it, I'll go when I'm happiest, Novice"

[Demannu]

Went out at Donny with a mate on a full fat K8.
I was on my K2 600 which wouldn't run below 7k and would only pull 12k flat out ( had it sorted later, but it had 72hp).
He was a veteran of 20+ track days and on the road was really quick on roads he knew.
By fuck he was slow on track, as in mobile chicane!
I told him to stick with me for a couple of laps so he could pick up some better lines, braking points etc
I went at 3/4 pace and had left him by coppice, so slow down the back straight, 2 laps around of this and I had far greater respect for the instructors.
So 74hp in the right hands is fine in inters IMO.

[weeksy]

Went out at Donny with a mate on a full fat K8.
I was on my K2 600 which wouldn't run below 7k and would only pull 12k flat out ( had it sorted later, but it had 72hp).
He was a veteran of 20+ track days and on the road was really quick on roads he knew.
By fuck he was slow on track, as in mobile chicane!
I told him to stick with me for a couple of laps so he could pick up some better lines, braking points etc
I went at 3/4 pace and had left him by coppice, so slow down the back straight, 2 laps around of this and I had far greater respect for the instructors.
So 74hp in the right hands is fine in inters IMO.

Tricky runs rings round us on his 390, that doesn't mean it's correct for us all to ride in inters. It's great if you can use it, but not if you can't

[MingtheMerciless]

Maybe pull a plug cap off and tell her its a "Big Bang" motor?

[Couchy]

Tbh if you’re on a 200hp bike you should be too quick for novice if you have half a clue how to ride, if you don’t have half a clue how to ride what are you doing trying to take a 200hp bike on track ?
This R7 is enough to hold its own in a fast group and more than enough in inters with a decent rider on board. You see fast bikes in the fast group lapping slower than CB500’s. So what if you get passed on the straights just sit them up into the next corner, if they don’t like they can sit behind on the straights, if they come by it’s fair game

[Bigyin]

Back when i was first involved with Bemsee my mate used to race in the MZ250 class, tuned motor, TZR125 wheels that allowed slicks and warmers to be used. He booked a Thursday track day at Snett prior to a race meeting to get in some testing on a new motor. as i was blamed for him getting into racing i was along in my usual role to help out/drive all the shit home if he binned it.

The guy doing the briefing actually pointed out Bill and told people to look out for him as the bike was small and wasnt that fast along the back straight but to be ready on the corners for him to appear on the inside with everything dragging on the floor. A few people laughed but after a couple of sessions a bloke on a track prepped CBR 600 came over and was laughing as he said he had lifted off on the straights to stay behind and then tried to stay with Bill round Corams but nearly lobbed it 4 laps in a row

[Yorick]

Back when i was first involved with Bemsee my mate used to race in the MZ250 class, tuned motor, TZR125 wheels that allowed slicks and warmers to be used. He booked a Thursday track day at Snett prior to a race meeting to get in some testing on a new motor. as i was blamed for him getting into racing i was along in my usual role to help out/drive all the shit home if he binned it.

The guy doing the briefing actually pointed out Bill and told people to look out for him as the bike was small and wasnt that fast along the back straight but to be ready on the corners for him to appear on the inside with everything dragging on the floor. A few people laughed but after a couple of sessions a bloke on a track prepped CBR 600 came over and was laughing as he said he had lifted off on the straights to stay behind and then tried to stay with Bill round Corams but nearly lobbed it 4 laps in a row

Some of the MZ lot were OK, but some were twats. Oooh, look at me. I can pass a sports bike on a corner. Woopee fucking doo. It's a trackday.
If we saw them being prats we chucked them off. It was not a practice day or an ego-massaging day.

[The Spin Doctor]

Problem is the risk factor for organiser, they know they'll fill all groups all day in standard 3 group setup

Arguably, they should be more worried about the risk factor posed by mis-matched riders than the threat to their wallets.

FWIW, on my first (and so far only) visit to Cadwell for the Hopp Rider training day there, I picked the novice group as I had never been round the circuit, but got put in the inters by the organisers. It turned out to be right, even though I was on a 70-odd hp XJ6... I was easily quicker round the twisty bits than many of the other riders in that group, which was a bit worrying.