In todays news...

[Screwdriver]

Who is actually in charge? Who is writing his cue cards? Who is deciding the political strategy wrt Ukraine?

While Biden certainly has his finger in that pie, at least we can agree he is not making decisions about how it is baked.

Respectfully I'm not sure you (or tbf very many people at all) understand leadership in any sort of large organisation.

He's certainly not sitting there knowing every detail and giving every order on every detail. He probably doesn't know half of what goes on, he can't. If you run anything big then sometimes you'll have senior people that have already decided on a course of action and they're just coming to you to explain the outline and get sign off. He'll know the gist of most major things, some things will be light on detail and he'll know literally nothing about other things even when his signature is on it.

Bidden might actually be a senile old fool and I think he certainly does show the signs of old age, but even if he was a thirty year old genius he'd still be getting shown which way to get up on stage.

Now then...that said, you're certainly right that there are powerful figures pulling strings and influencing decisions, but that's not just Biden, that's all democratic governments everywhere, they're influenced by money, connections and votes.

I think what you're looking for is a dictator that makes every decision, has a sufficient ego that he can't be influenced and listens to no one.

That is true. Of course I know nothing about how a large organisation is run, let alone a country. But a large organisation or country needs to have an objective, a purpose and for a country specifically, a moral compass and core values which shape decision making.

It is somewhat ironic then that the USA appears to be being run more like a business than a cultural entity or an exemplar for a capitalist democracy. Clearly that "business" is not geared towards benefitting its citizens which are increasingly being treated more like commodities. Nor do its objectives appear to be for the benefit of humanity generally or even world order and peace.

Instead it appears to have been taken over; politicians literally bought out by large global corporations and the entire country being run for the personal financial benefit of <whoever it is> that is telling Biden what to say and do. Given the recent revelations regarding the efficacy of the Pfizer "vaccine" (for example) it is shocking to think big pharma were able to "convince" the sitting government to make it illegal NOT to buy and use their product.

Then you discover their individual "advertising" budget (effectively sponsorship/bribery) constitutes fully three quarters of the entire mainstream media advertising revenue. Goodness knows how much they spent on "lobbying" (which frankly is literally bribery). Doesn't take a genius to work out why we were never told the truth about these medicines, nor why the government were so keen to enforce those mandates at the behest of corporate interests.

These are extraordinarily dangerous times with the creeping corporatisation of "democracy". A true leader, unlike Joe Biden, would stand up against these financial giants. After all, the government is merely a conduit for the enormous wealth that vast numbers of humans develop. Instead of humanity benefitting from their labours, the government squanders that wealth by funnelling it into the hands of big business in order to line their own pockets with kickbacks.

So yes, I appreciate a leader does not micromanage an entire country but they build a team around them which is supposed to represent the will of the people who have given them that power. What is happening now is the exact opposite. Governments are increasingly dictating to the people and silencing dissent.

[KungFooBob]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-65453874

I had trouble reading that, it made me feel pretty anxious, it's quite possibly my worst nightmare.

You'd think it wouldn't be a problem in a man built environment above ground.

The people who go underground to do it are mentalists of the highest order, imho.

[Potter]

These are extraordinarily dangerous times with the creeping corporatisation of "democracy". A true leader, unlike Joe Biden, would stand up against these financial giants. After all, the government is merely a conduit for the enormous wealth that vast numbers of humans develop. Instead of humanity benefitting from their labours, the government squanders that wealth by funnelling it into the hands of big business in order to line their own pockets with kickbacks.

Nothing outside of a utopian fairy story will sort that, throughout human history it's been brick by brick, war after war, oppression after oppression, murder after murder, etc, all aimed at enriching the people calling the shots.

I recommended a book recently called The Blazing World by Jonathan Healey, it's a really good read and certainly through most of it I kept thinking to myself that not much has changed really, there is nothing new happening today, just a slightly different landscape.

[Cousin Jack]

I think what you're looking for is a dictator that makes every decision, has a sufficient ego that he can't be influenced and listens to no one.

I am available.

They tend not to last so long, or go mad with worry that everyone is out to get them.
Eric Blair reckoned that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I wouldn't fancy it.

Personally I'm of the Richard Branson school (or was it Steve Jobs?) - hire good people that know more about their job than you do, clear the path and then get out of their way.

I don't have long to last, I am about the same age as Biden, but (perhaps a little less senile. 4 years will do me, I won't run for a 2nd term. Power corrupts, very true, but I am going to enjoy being corrupted!

[Yambo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-65453874

I had trouble reading that, it made me feel pretty anxious, it's quite possibly my worst nightmare.

You'd think it wouldn't be a problem in a man built environment above ground.

The people who go underground to do it are mentalists of the highest order, imho.

Tragic.

A long time ago when I was a squaddie I did a bit of caving in Germany. I enjoyed it but wasn't passionate about it. It was something to be somewhere where so few people have ever been but it didn't have the same draw for me as climbing hills. On my next to last 'expedition' I got stuck in a very small tunnel which had to be negotiated on one's back. I made the very basic mistake of not stretching my hands/arms out 'over my head' and consequently my shoulders got stuck.

I had about a 3 second exposure of complete terror - all I could see from the glow of my acetylene lamp was solid rock a couple of inches above my nose, perhaps 200 feet of solid rock. It was a seriously bad moment. Luckily I wasn't the last in line and the lad behind me clouted my feet and I came back to reality, told him I was stuck and took the shit for being a complete wanker. He pulled my legs and I worked my way out then got my arms sorted and went back into the tunnel. It wasn't that long, about 4 metres and I got another serious ribbing from the rest of the guys when I got through. The way out of the cave was back the same way so I had to do it again. It wasn't pleasant but I wasn't going to stay down there. . I did one more cave with no dramas but that was enough and I stuck to hills.

[Screwdriver]

These are extraordinarily dangerous times with the creeping corporatisation of "democracy". A true leader, unlike Joe Biden, would stand up against these financial giants. After all, the government is merely a conduit for the enormous wealth that vast numbers of humans develop. Instead of humanity benefitting from their labours, the government squanders that wealth by funnelling it into the hands of big business in order to line their own pockets with kickbacks.

Nothing outside of a utopian fairy story will sort that, throughout human history it's been brick by brick, war after war, oppression after oppression, murder after murder, etc, all aimed at enriching the people calling the shots.

I recommended a book recently called The Blazing World by Jonathan Healey, it's a really good read and certainly through most of it I kept thinking to myself that not much has changed really, there is nothing new happening today, just a slightly different landscape.

No and I don't appreciate the "fairy story" angle either. I am not describing a utopia, merely the proper exercise of the societal structures that have been carefully engineered over the millennia. Our tax system would work if it wasn't for greed and corruption turning a blind eye to the various dodges and avoidance/evasion which has become commonplace.

I carefully suggest "These are extraordinarily dangerous times" because of my constant reminders regarding mass media being perverted. People are literally being brainwashed by ill conceived strategies which we all know are designed to subvert any efforts to achieve some balance in the discussion but are also leading to mass psychosis.

The human mind is a complex, powerful and yet fragile thing. In these times when the entire world can be scammed for the benefit of the rich and powerful, our society is slowly being dismantled. I recently pointed out the irony in an observation that a "dumb AI" which beat the best human player off the planet could easily be beaten (in the game of Go) by a relatively simple cheat.

Now consider what happens in an environment where the world depends on online communications for its news, views, opinions and a "dumb AI" discovers a similar exploit which it uses against humans. It is difficult enough already to establish what is true and what is media spin or downright lies. And no, I don't imply we're going to end up being "mind controlled" by robot masters, I mean devious humans already realise they can wield that power for their own ends (advertising is a good example of psychological mind tricks) and they neither know nor care what side effect such strategies have on the human psyche so long as it keeps them in power and makes them money.

Dangerous times.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Thing is though, even with my most optimistic anti-cynicism hat on, I struggle to think of a time when that wasn't the case. The rich and powerful have always got to be rich and powerful by standing on the backs of everyone else. It used to be the case that people like you and I weren't even given the pretence of an input. So are things actually better or worse than they've historically been?

[Screwdriver]

Thing is though, even with my most optimistic anti-cynicism hat on, I struggle to think of a time when that wasn't the case. The rich and powerful have always got to be rich and powerful by standing on the backs of everyone else. It used to be the case that people like you and I weren't even given the pretence of an input. So are things actually better or worse than they've historically been?

It is of course the concept of "ownership" that this Brave New World is forged from.

But "you will own nothing and you will be happy" is the mantra from our new egalitarian masters.

Historically, the world has never been "owned" by a fucking chemist shop or so tightly controlled by news media, also owned by the same global corporate gods.

The "pretence of an input" is an interesting observation. It's really what we used to call "free speech" back in ye olden days when that was allowed. I did not ever expect my individual "input" to be given any pretence of merit but allied with a million other like minded people or myself with them, our society would progress towards a common goal, driven by the wave of public opinion.

It is now difficult if not impossible to gauge what public opinion is because we are being told what to think by a handful of vested interests.

If I was being deliberately conspiratorial, I might suggest we don't have too long to wait until another pandemic inducing virus is released upon the world. That would seal our fate. Governments around the world, at the behest of global corporations are gearing up for it.

But I do not go that far. I merely report that despite the years of subterfuge, denials and media backed lies, SAR-CoV-2 it transpires was most likely a weaponised virus, developed in a lab in Wuhan with American financial backing. Todays "news" is the most likely circumstance being the black market re-selling of diseased bats after they had been experimented on.

[Cousin Jack]

But I do not go that far. I merely report that despite the years of subterfuge, denials and media backed lies, SAR-CoV-2 it transpires was most likely a weaponised virus, developed in a lab in Wuhan with American financial backing. Todays "news" is the most likely circumstance being the black market re-selling of diseased bats after they had been experimented on.

If SAR-CoV-2 has been 'weaponised' they have done a piss-poor job of it. Most people survive, many just suffer mild annoying discomfort for a few days. And do you seriously think you could smuggle live bats out of a secure virus lab?

[demographic]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-65453874

I had trouble reading that, it made me feel pretty anxious, it's quite possibly my worst nightmare.

You'd think it wouldn't be a problem in a man built environment above ground.

The people who go underground to do it are mentalists of the highest order, imho.

From what I heard he climbed up the climbing wall then fall down the back of it, no caves involved but its often a very tight space with bad access.

[Screwdriver]

But I do not go that far. I merely report that despite the years of subterfuge, denials and media backed lies, SAR-CoV-2 it transpires was most likely a weaponised virus, developed in a lab in Wuhan with American financial backing. Todays "news" is the most likely circumstance being the black market re-selling of diseased bats after they had been experimented on.

If SAR-CoV-2 has been 'weaponised' they have done a piss-poor job of it. Most people survive, many just suffer mild annoying discomfort for a few days. And do you seriously think you could smuggle live bats out of a secure virus lab?

I say "weaponised" they call it "gain of function". What "function" do you suppose they are researching and why do you suppose the USA conduct this sort of activity in China (and as it turns out Ukraine).

A professor admitted to the practice which was apparently widespread. If you can get gold out of Fort Knox, you can get a dead bat out of a lab, it is merely a question of authority and in the case of Wuhan, corruption. Dead or alive, bat is a valuable delicacy.

Apparently, the professor is now also a bit dead.

[Mr. Dazzle]

From 2015, back when Bird Flu was gonna kill us all.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK285579/

The field of virology, and to some extent the broader field of microbiology, widely relies on studies that involve gain or loss of function. In order to understand the role of such studies in virology, Dr. Kanta Subbarao from the Laboratory of Infectious Disease at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) gave an overview of the current scientific and technical approaches to the research on pandemic strains of influenza and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) and Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) coronaviruses (CoV). As discussed in greater detail later in this chapter, many participants argued that the word choice of “gain-of-function” to describe the limited type of experiments covered by the U.S. deliberative process, particularly when coupled with a pause on even a smaller number of research projects, had generated concern that the policy would affect much broader areas of virology research.

Subbarao explained that routine virological methods involve experiments that aim to produce a gain of a desired function, such as higher yields for vaccine strains, but often also lead to loss of function, such as loss of the ability for a virus to replicate well, as a consequence. In other words, any selection process involving an alteration of genotypes and their resulting phenotypes is considered a type of Gain-of-Function (GoF) research, even if the U.S. policy is intended to apply to only a small subset of such work.

[Horse]

But "you will own nothing and you will be happy" is the mantra from our new egalitarian masters.

'New'?

Truck was the practice of paying employees in goods rather than money, or compelling them to spend their wages at a store the employer either owned or was interested in financially. ... by the 1890s workers had become more concerned about other practices that prevented them from receiving the full value of their wages. These included employers taking heavy deductions from wages for disciplinary fines, for damaged work, for the rental of tools and materials, and for providing heat, light or standing room in the workplace.

Or

The 1831 Truck Act made it illegal to pay certain artificers in anything but the current coin of the realm. ... The 1887 Truck Amendment Act expanded these protections to nearly all manual workers

Or

The practice has been documented as recently as 2019. On September 4, 2008, the Mexican Supreme Court of Justice ruled that Walmart de Mexico, the Mexican subsidiary of Walmart, must cease paying its employees in part with vouchers redeemable only at Walmart stores.

[Screwdriver]

From 2015, back when Bird Flu was gonna kill us all.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK285579/

I don't recall it ever being that dangerous to humans per se. Of course, it is but one of a number of viruses emerging from China. We digress.

Despite the positive spin and obvious euphemisms in that piece, a virus present only in bats since the beginning of time was modified to infect humans.

[Potter]

The rich and powerful have always got to be rich and powerful by standing on the backs of everyone else.

Maybe (most certainly) they were just smarter.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Fact remains that they are only able to be rich and powerful by exploiting the efforts of everyone else. I don't think I'd be any different BTW, in fact I know I'm not.

You can tell its true because we have to have laws to force us all to share and be nice.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Despite the positive spin and obvious euphemisms in that piece, a virus present only in bats since the beginning of time was modified to infect humans.

Point is, the term "gain of function" entered the popular lexicon at the same time as the word "Coronavirus" but in fact both had been knocking around for years before hand*. Gain of function just sounds nice an evil, but it's a dry term invented a decade before it made it into pod casts. Doesn't prove anyone was weaponizing anything.

*Dettol were advertising that their spray cleaner works on Coronaviruses long before SAR-CoV-2

[Screwdriver]

The rich and powerful have always got to be rich and powerful by standing on the backs of everyone else.

Maybe (most certainly) they were just smarter.

I don't know how true that is. A PhD student in particle physics or mathematics is going to be "smarter" than most but isn't necessarily going to become a multi-millionaire. I think the "secret" is an obsession with money above all else.

I once went out with a girl who was p.a. to one of this worlds super rich (he was/is a nice chap incidentally). Got myself invited to a Christmas dinner event thing. Without naming the asset management company themselves though you will never have heard of them, I'll call it "Bauche, Lomb and Parker", I found myself sitting right next to the venerable Mr. Parker. He was so old he looked like a mummy but with the unmistakable air of solid wealth emanating from his beautifully preserved parchment skin.

Around the table would have been half a dozen of the richest people I have ever met, massive farmstead like victorian properties somehow smuggled into the heart of London, equally decadent properties in Davos, Monaco, New York etc., each probably owned more properties than we've had bikes. So I asked them, once you get to a certain level though, what do you need all the extra money for...

By extraordinary coincidence one of those tumbleweeds actually blew past the table during the moment of silence before the various polite conversations continued as if the question had never been asked. I think they do it because they collect money. The more they have the more they want. Just for its own sake. I know for certain that having multiple dwellings is a right pain in the arse, so many fiddly problems with planing consent, utilities, security, multiply that by throwing in a super yacht and a private jet or two and even with staff looking after it all, the mind numbing tediousness of keeping that lifestyle going just gets worse (imho).

It is like stamp collecting for them. It is the very focus of their lives, they don't know why they do it but the more wealth they accumulate, the easier it is to make more and the more they need to "keep up" with their peers. Sad part is, I met a nice chap at his barbecue event, kids party; massive house, great family, amazing lifestyle on the face of it but this was probably one of his few "days off" (though they were of course talking business non stop). I have little doubt he worked every hour of the day, every day of the week on his quest to generate a fortune, without ever really knowing how fortunate he was. I learned some time later he dropped dead from cancer. Not sure if he ever reached forty.

Fact remains that they are only able to be rich and powerful by exploiting the efforts of everyone else. I don't think I'd be any different BTW, in fact I know I'm not.

You can tell its true because we have to have laws to force us all to share and be nice.

That's harsh. Some people are driven towards the lifestyle they want for themselves and their family, not the mere love of money but what they can do with it. Most organisations are pyramids and while those vast numbers of semi skilled workers are at the bottom, they are no "worse" than the better paid "management" (let's say) at the top who are more able or better suited to the onerous task of maintaining the industrial process that is generating employment for those at the bottom.

I couldn't do it. Not because I am stupid or those managerial types are so much smarter but simply because that world doesn't interest me. We all find ourselves gravitating towards our interests which reward us commensurate with our relative abilities to perform our chosen task.

Faceless unelected global corporations are exploiting this otherwise innocuous feature of our care free capitalist society by leveraging the massive wealth they can accumulate from the toils of humanity to increase their abilities to acquire even more of it! You're not obsessed with money, fine we'll take it all then. You'll own nothing and be happy.

[Screwdriver]

Despite the positive spin and obvious euphemisms in that piece, a virus present only in bats since the beginning of time was modified to infect humans.

Point is, the term "gain of function" entered the popular lexicon at the same time as the word "Coronavirus" but in fact both had been knocking around for years before hand*. Gain of function just sounds nice an evil, but it's a dry term invented a decade before it made it into pod casts. Doesn't prove anyone was weaponizing anything.

*Dettol were advertising that their spray cleaner works on Coronaviruses long before SAR-CoV-2

I call it "weaponising" because that is how I choose to describe a process which takes a harmless virus and creates a version of it deadly to humans.

Call it what you like. Fluffy bunny fun cuddles. They still "researched" a dangerous virus exclusive to one species and made it infectious to ours and what's more, they're still doing it...

[Yorick]

All this shit should be in the arguing the toss thread.

This is TODAY'S news.


Sorry if that's too difficult to understand.

This was a fun thread. Stop poisoning it.