Depression

[Potter]

Approaches to people who need motivation need different tactics. Years ago when I worked for probation you really needed a mixed bag of skills. I’m not afraid to give a grown man a hug, or sit in an awkward silence, but treading softly isn’t the only approach you need.

Sometimes people need a cuddle, sometimes they need a safe space, but sometimes they need some fairly blunt truths pushed right under their nose, and sometimes they need an Alex Ferguson football boot in the face.

[mboy]

Sometimes people need a cuddle, sometimes they need a safe space, but sometimes they need some fairly blunt truths pushed right under their nose, and sometimes they need an Alex Ferguson football boot in the face.

The problem comes, as I have sadly recently found out, when those who you have come to trust and rely on the most over the years don't have the emotional intelligence to understand the requirement for a cuddle, rather than the usual blunt truths or the boot in the face!

Long story... But my best mate of 30yrs has recently shown a true lack of empathy towards me and the fact I've been suffering with cancer and repeated surgeries and suffering to do with it, and right now I just want to punch the self absorbed c*** in the face!

[Cousin Jack]

Approaches to people who need motivation need different tactics. Years ago when I worked for probation you really needed a mixed bag of skills. I’m not afraid to give a grown man a hug, or sit in an awkward silence, but treading softly isn’t the only approach you need.

Sometimes people need a cuddle, sometimes they need a safe space, but sometimes they need some fairly blunt truths pushed right under their nose, and sometimes they need an Alex Ferguson football boot in the face.

The problem is always in deciding which approach is needed - it is not always obvious. And sometimes people, with the best of intentions, get it wrong.

[Potter]

I think I get what you're saying, I've come out of situations with mental scarring and I've been disappointed to find that no one else seems to get it.
Made worse I suppose because I've never made any real effort to try to help them understand.

I fall back on the universal truth that nature doesn't care, life will steamroller you into the ground and the world will keep turning, even if you don't get up tomorrow morning. No one really cares, I mean really, because they're also dealing with their own shit, so they've got limits on their capacity to lend you some of their emotion.

I have no solutions, except to not expect anything from anyone else and to plough your own field.
It's a lonely philosophy.

[Cousin Jack]

I expect little from this life, apart from the world to shit upon me from a great height when I am least expecting it. So far I have not been disappointed, particularly in the shit deposits.

I try not to be an arsehole to others, and to help them if I can, but I am often so busy trying to sort out my life that I don't even notice they need help, and when I occasionaly do notice, I often misread the cues as to what they need.

What I really, really don't understand is the modern feeling of 'entitlement'. I can understand the child of the Duke of Midshire, heir to the title and a zillion acres feeling quite happy with their lot, I would be quite ecstatic. But today so many young people feel 'entitled' to stuff for no good reason that I can detect. They must get very disappointed.

[Couchy]

I think I get what you're saying, I've come out of situations with mental scarring and I've been disappointed to find that no one else seems to get it.
Made worse I suppose because I've never made any real effort to try to help them understand.

I fall back on the universal truth that nature doesn't care, life will steamroller you into the ground and the world will keep turning, even if you don't get up tomorrow morning. No one really cares, I mean really, because they're also dealing with their own shit, so they've got limits on their capacity to lend you some of their emotion.

I have no solutions, except to not expect anything from anyone else and to plough your own field.
It's a lonely philosophy.

As I'm going through shit I do agree even though a lot of people try and help and it's much appreciated the only person that can do anything is yourself. Personally I'd call it a day tomorrow if I didn't have a daughter as I've seen and done everything I want, I've no desire to live and be alone so it would be fine by me. Hoping for her sake I don't convince myself she'll be ok but if I do it was meant to be and I'll have no regrets.

[Yorick]

I think I get what you're saying, I've come out of situations with mental scarring and I've been disappointed to find that no one else seems to get it.
Made worse I suppose because I've never made any real effort to try to help them understand.

I fall back on the universal truth that nature doesn't care, life will steamroller you into the ground and the world will keep turning, even if you don't get up tomorrow morning. No one really cares, I mean really, because they're also dealing with their own shit, so they've got limits on their capacity to lend you some of their emotion.

I have no solutions, except to not expect anything from anyone else and to plough your own field.
It's a lonely philosophy.

As I'm going through shit I do agree even though a lot of people try and help and it's much appreciated the only person that can do anything is yourself. Personally I'd call it a day tomorrow if I didn't have a daughter as I've seen and done everything I want, I've no desire to live and be alone so it would be fine by me. Hoping for her sake I don't convince myself she'll be ok but if I do it was meant to be and I'll have no regrets.

All I can say is, stick at it. Your mindset may improve.
You dealt with losing Grib. You'll deal with this.

[Noggin]

I think I get what you're saying, I've come out of situations with mental scarring and I've been disappointed to find that no one else seems to get it.
Made worse I suppose because I've never made any real effort to try to help them understand.

I fall back on the universal truth that nature doesn't care, life will steamroller you into the ground and the world will keep turning, even if you don't get up tomorrow morning. No one really cares, I mean really, because they're also dealing with their own shit, so they've got limits on their capacity to lend you some of their emotion.

I have no solutions, except to not expect anything from anyone else and to plough your own field.
It's a lonely philosophy.

As I'm going through shit I do agree even though a lot of people try and help and it's much appreciated the only person that can do anything is yourself. Personally I'd call it a day tomorrow if I didn't have a daughter as I've seen and done everything I want, I've no desire to live and be alone so it would be fine by me. Hoping for her sake I don't convince myself she'll be ok but if I do it was meant to be and I'll have no regrets.

I can promise you that she will ALWAYS need you. If you quit, she will miss you forever.

Losing someone because they didn't want to go on is (I have felt) more difficult than losing someone to illness, age or accident. The not wanting to go is a kind of illness, but it's a bit different.

I'm saying this as someone who is only still here because I love my niece and nephew and my goddaughter. I wouldn't want them to think that I didn't care enough to stick around for them. I know others would be hurt, but, you know, the world will keep turning, but equally, I still morn and miss friends that decided not to go on. I hate that I didn't realise, or, worse that I thought that maybe I knew but didn't want to raise the subject.

Life does suck big ones when you feel that way, but your daughter will always want, need and love you.

[wheelnut]

. Hoping for her sake I don't convince myself she'll be ok but if I do it was meant to be and I'll have no regrets.

She would be ok. One way or another. What her feelings towards you would be is anyone’s guess though. Having had a recent close experience of suicide, of the three emotions it generates, guilt, anger and grief, the first two are by far the most prominent.

[Taipan]

Our friends Mum took her own life when our friend was in her 20s. That girl breaks her heart regularly over many things, like her Mum never meeting her kids and vice versa. Not being able to share her troubles and missing her mum's support and advice through her divorce and other problems that life has thrown at her. Sadly her Mum thought her daughter and the world would be better off without her and she'll never know how wrong she was...

[Cousin Jack]

As I'm going through shit I do agree even though a lot of people try and help and it's much appreciated the only person that can do anything is yourself. Personally I'd call it a day tomorrow if I didn't have a daughter as I've seen and done everything I want, I've no desire to live and be alone so it would be fine by me. Hoping for her sake I don't convince myself she'll be ok but if I do it was meant to be and I'll have no regrets.

Shit happens, but it passes too. Daughters are forever. She will NOT be OK about you bailing out.

You have seen and done everything you want - so far. Next year, and all the years after that she will have fresh stuff she will want to share with you. That may be marriage and kids, success in her job, new sports, new adventures. No-one knows what she will do, but I guarantee she will want to share it with you. And you will want to be there for her too.

Trust me, my daughter will be 50 next birthday, she is a senior manager with a prestigious organization and by any objective measure she has achieved far more than I ever did. She still runs plans past Dad, still asks me to comment on her CV, and generally uses me as a sounding board for all sorts of stuff. I contribute little, except acting as a critical friend, but I think she would miss me. And I certainly would miss her.

Don't ever give up! And if I can help in any way PM me.

[Tomcat]

Personally I'd call it a day tomorrow if I didn't have a daughter as I've seen and done everything I want

Mate, I'm a fair bit older than you and I haven't come anywhere near to doing everything I want. When I retired I figured that was about it, just waiting to die (and some days - especially in winter - can be rather long), but I've found shit to do and it makes my days worth carrying on. And as you say, for those around me, when I do go I know it'll be a bad time for them. Not just my wife and kids but my new granddaughter as well, who brings joy to me with her love of life whenever I see her. There are many reasons for someone feeling low, sometimes your mates can help, sometimes a chat with the doc is what's needed. Because suicide is never, ever, the answer. All that does is stops things getting better.

[Noggin]

Next year, and all the years after that she will have fresh stuff she will want to share with you. That may be marriage and kids, success in her job, new sports, new adventures. No-one knows what she will do, but I guarantee she will want to share it with you. And you will want to be there for her too.

Trust me, my daughter will be 50 next birthday, she is a senior manager with a prestigious organization and by any objective measure she has achieved far more than I ever did. She still runs plans past Dad, still asks me to comment on her CV, and generally uses me as a sounding board for all sorts of stuff. I contribute little, except acting as a critical friend, but I think she would miss me. And I certainly would miss her.

This. My Dad died in 2011 (I was 41). He died from heart failure brought on in part to treatment for two cancers (probably - the cancer treatment was successful but the chances are his heart failed as a result, apparently).

He wasn't young (72) but he went too early for me, and I'm pretty sure he went too early for him.

But every day I still want to share stuff with him. Ask his advice. Send a photo of the latest sunset/rise/view (he was the only person that encouraged my love of photography). I don't think that missing him will ever change.

I don't think I'm anywhere near 'getting over' his death. And that's after 12 years. I remember my mum saying (probably 10-15 years ago) that she still goes to tell her Dad something and he died when she was a teenager.

I guess it's the same for boys and parents, but I don't think I will ever not miss my Dad.

(damn I'm bawling just writing about missing him - not something I've ever told anyone else )

To Couchy, as CJ said - always at the end of the phone/messenger, whatever, if you need to yell and shout or just, whatever xx

[Tricky]

I think I get what you're saying, I've come out of situations with mental scarring and I've been disappointed to find that no one else seems to get it.
Made worse I suppose because I've never made any real effort to try to help them understand.

I fall back on the universal truth that nature doesn't care, life will steamroller you into the ground and the world will keep turning, even if you don't get up tomorrow morning. No one really cares, I mean really, because they're also dealing with their own shit, so they've got limits on their capacity to lend you some of their emotion.

I have no solutions, except to not expect anything from anyone else and to plough your own field.
It's a lonely philosophy.

As I'm going through shit I do agree even though a lot of people try and help and it's much appreciated the only person that can do anything is yourself. Personally I'd call it a day tomorrow if I didn't have a daughter as I've seen and done everything I want, I've no desire to live and be alone so it would be fine by me. Hoping for her sake I don't convince myself she'll be ok but if I do it was meant to be and I'll have no regrets.

Agree completely with your first sentence, and understand the second, as that's exactly where I was 18 years ago.
I got right to the edge and it was something that happened at the point that made me think of my (then 6, 8 and 10 YO) boys that stopped me- maybe it was a chance occurrence or maybe it was fate, but it stopped me in my tracks.
Anyway, I am so (so so so ) glad I didn't do what I'd planned, and that I managed to get through those next few years. My boys have grown up into adults that I'm very proud of, who I know truly love me and I'm very fortunate to have as my best mates ever, not just my kids.
I had some dark lonely times for quite a long time, and it took a long time but I met someone who wants and loves me as much as I want and love her, and I want to spend the rest of my life with- I never ever imagined it would be possible.

You're a truly great person- those of us on here who know you love you, but most of all your beautiful little girl loves you and needs you a fuck sight more than it probably seems at the moment or you think she does
You've been through the darkest stuff before, and you can and must do it again, for her sake, and hopefully you can get that love of life back along the way.
Stay strong mate. x

[MrLongbeard]

As I'm going through shit I do agree even though a lot of people try and help and it's much appreciated the only person that can do anything is yourself. Personally I'd call it a day tomorrow if I didn't have a daughter as I've seen and done everything I want, I've no desire to live and be alone so it would be fine by me. Hoping for her sake I don't convince myself she'll be ok but if I do it was meant to be and I'll have no regrets.

You'll never know unless you hang around for a good while longer and you get to that place where you can have an open discussion with her about where you are and how you got there.

It's pretty easy to rationalise it in your own mind, you've been a good parent, raised a good strong child, they'll be angry and mourn you but are strong enough to move on eventually and get over your failings as a parent / person.

I had the same conversations with myself when I retreated to my dark places, being asked by my GP why I hadn't acted on my suicidal thoughts and blubbering like an 8 year old girl whilst replying that I didn't want to spoil her Christmas that year and every year going forward mostly brought me around to hanging about a bit longer.

[Potter]

If you top yourself then the people you leave behind, and especially the person that finds you, will never recover.
I’d tell you how I know this but I’m not capable of talking about it yet, perhaps never, so you’ll just have to trust me.

[Noggin]

I see this on FB sometimes and I try and remember it when I'm in the worst place.

I thought I'd put it here as maybe it is useful to some of us here to remember?? (I have to try quite hard to remember sometimes)

[Sunny]

I've read through this whole thread and felt there's not a lot I can offer. Until this.

If you top yourself then the people you leave behind, and especially the person that finds you, will never recover.
I’d tell you how I know this but I’m not capable of talking about it yet, perhaps never, so you’ll just have to trust me.

As you can't, maybe I can.

I still can't imagine what it was like for my dad to find my brother hanging.
Graham killed himself when he was 23 and I was 19, and I've always wished that I'd found him rather than my dad. I can only imagine that there's not a lot worse than finding your child dead by their own hand.

I don't suppose any of you who've met me IRL would think it, given my general attitude being irritating cheerful, but by that point in my life I'd already seriously tried to end it twice (thankfully my parents only knew about one of those occasions), and my brother had tried seriously once before too (that we know of).

As a direct result of seeing the impact of his death, I made myself a promise that as long as my parents/any people or animals who are dependent on me are alive, I won't do it.

I also won't judge anybody for their choices in this - feeling like you want to end it all is shitty and horrible, and in my personal experience feels strangely rational and unemotional, and you either get through it or you don't.

Generally speaking though, your friends and family would prefer it if you stuck around

[Noggin]

I've read through this whole thread and felt there's not a lot I can offer. Until this.

If you top yourself then the people you leave behind, and especially the person that finds you, will never recover.
I’d tell you how I know this but I’m not capable of talking about it yet, perhaps never, so you’ll just have to trust me.

As you can't, maybe I can.

I still can't imagine what it was like for my dad to find my brother hanging.
Graham killed himself when he was 23 and I was 19, and I've always wished that I'd found him rather than my dad. I can only imagine that there's not a lot worse than finding your child dead by their own hand.

I don't suppose any of you who've met me IRL would think it, given my general attitude being irritating cheerful, but by that point in my life I'd already seriously tried to end it twice (thankfully my parents only knew about one of those occasions), and my brother had tried seriously once before too (that we know of).

As a direct result of seeing the impact of his death, I made myself a promise that as long as my parents/any people or animals who are dependent on me are alive, I won't do it.

I also won't judge anybody for their choices in this - feeling like you want to end it all is shitty and horrible, and in my personal experience feels strangely rational and unemotional, and you either get through it or you don't.

Generally speaking though, your friends and family would prefer it if you stuck around

Obviously (I hope) liked for what you have said not for what happened. Also, sending hugs to you xx


I do think that there are very few people that make it obvious that they are suffering. Most people have a mask they wear to protect others (and themselves to a degree) from seeing exactly how they are feeling.

Wasn't it Robin Williams that said something like, the most cheerful and funny people are often the most broken inside?

Similarly to you, it was seeing and feeling the devastation on those left behind that follows a suicide that made me determined not to go through with it whenever I really want to quit in recent years.

Also, I keep telling myself that life REALLY WILL GET BETTER - sometimes I need to shout that over and over to actually have any sense of belief, but that's worked so far!!

[Yorick]

I've had some bad times and been close to the edge a couple of times. But over the last few days I've become pals with a lovely couple on holiday from Leeds. We initially chatted about bikes and he used to live near Carnaby and went to all the meetings in early 80s, so had seen me race a few times

Then they let slip that his wife was poorly. Aggressive breast cancer which will get her in next year and a brain aneurysm which could get her any day, It's hereditary and already taken 2 of her siblings.

She's so confident and happy and trying her best to enjoy life. Striving for more days alive

This makes the choice to end your own life seem a bit stupid. That thought will sort out any future demons for me

I hope we have a long friendship as they're over again in January and I'm gonna take them for a 4WD tour