revtothelimit - motorbike forum

weeksy wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:52 am

Horse wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 11:14 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:45 pm It's mad, most people won't actually end up paying it back either. So they're essentially going with a heavy subsidy anyway!

Indeed. It's another PFI(?) buildings scenario.

Currently almost £20 billion is loaned to around 1.5 million students in England each year. The value of outstanding loans at the end of March 2022 reached £182 billion. The Government forecasts the value of outstanding loans to be around £460 billion (2021‑22 prices) by the mid-2040s.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn01079/

Isn't that a good thing though ? As realistically it means the more well off are funding the education of the less well off... until they then do the same in years to come...

Ex-students are supposed to be paying back their fees loans, deducted from wages. The amount owing increases, with a high interest rate.

But many will never pay it back before the 30 year limit, at which point it's written off, so it has to be paid by the government (tax payers) to the company which runs it.

Doesn't seem a brilliant system to push the debt off into the future. £460Billion, a fair chunk of which will be compound interest. For context, the 2020 announcement of "40 new hospitals" was funded by 'just' £3.7Billion.

Horse wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:23 am

weeksy wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:52 am

Horse wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 11:14 pm

Indeed. It's another PFI(?) buildings scenario.

Currently almost £20 billion is loaned to around 1.5 million students in England each year. The value of outstanding loans at the end of March 2022 reached £182 billion. The Government forecasts the value of outstanding loans to be around £460 billion (2021‑22 prices) by the mid-2040s.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn01079/

Isn't that a good thing though ? As realistically it means the more well off are funding the education of the less well off... until they then do the same in years to come...

Ex-students are supposed to be paying back their fees loans, deducted from wages. The amount owing increases, with a high interest rate.

But many will never pay it back before the 30 year limit, at which point it's written off, so it has to be paid by the government (tax payers) to the company which runs it.

Doesn't seem a brilliant system to push the debt off into the future. £460Billion, a fair chunk of which will be compound interest. For context, the 2020 announcement of "40 new hospitals" was funded by 'just' £3.7Billion.

What's a better solution ? As i see it, we the tax payers are paying it off based upon what you said, 'we' can sort of afford it as it won't be that much difference in tax and we likely earn more... So, what's better than the people who can afford it paying for the people who cannot ?

A better idea might be to go back to a lot fewer but 'better' degrees, in usefull stuff like emgineering, medicine, and stuff. A few less degrees in Meeja Studies and Performing Arts. Then we coukd afford to fund the degrees.

weeksy wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:40 am What's a better solution ? As i see it, we the tax payers are paying it off based upon what you said, 'we' can sort of afford it as it won't be that much difference in tax and we likely earn more... So, what's better than the people who can afford it paying for the people who cannot ?

As with many forms of tax the payers want to know what value comes from it, as far as I can see there's a lot of students wasting time and money on pointless junk degrees.
Saying those that can afford it to pay for everything only goes so far, push it enough and more high earners will look at moving abroad.

I'm more comfortable now with subbing my kids loans as I realised they are probably costing me almost the same to live at home, I still don't want them doing a pointless degree just to fund a professor's pension.

Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:59 am A better idea might be to go back to a lot fewer but 'better' degrees, in usefull stuff like emgineering, medicine, and stuff. A few less degrees in Meeja Studies and Performing Arts. Then we coukd afford to fund the degrees.

It's interesting that the type of change you suggest may gradually be happening.

Reading 'Tech' became 'University of the Thames Valley' - but is now Reading College.

I have no idea of changes that have underpinned that. Guessing, several years ago there was a government-driven impetus of degrees for all, more recently apprenticeships are back in vogue.

Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:59 am A better idea might be to go back to a lot fewer but 'better' degrees, in usefull stuff like emgineering, medicine, and stuff. A few less degrees in Meeja Studies and Performing Arts. Then we coukd afford to fund the degrees.

lol how 1950s of you... shall we put women back in the kitchen too ?

You're aware the world moves on, evolves, changes... Media Studies is a perfectly valid course in this modern world.


From reading this thread it seems 'you lot' are happy to fund the things you think are worthwhile, but not things that others think are worthwhile...

Media Studies is perfectly valid, IF it is a real academic course, with rigorous stsndards. Many, perhaps most, are not. They are a soft option. Same with many other 'new' subjects.

BTW, the best routes unto Media are

1) A 1st from Oxbridge
2) An apprenticeship via a local rag.

It's kind of a self resolving problem anyway. If a degree is "pointless" people will be less inclined to take on massive debt to obtain one, so Unis will stop offering them.

You used to be able to go to Uni for free and study "Classics"* back in the day. Is that more useful or worthwhile than Meeja?

*You can still do Classics of course, it just ain't free

Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:43 am BTW, the best routes unto Media are

2) An apprenticeship via a local rag.

Our local (West Berkshire) rag's main offices are in Cambridge. Much of what appears on the website is syndicated. Breaking local news is often not updated, and left up (M4 shut due to crash, etc) for days.

https://www.iliffemedia.co.uk/about-us/

I don't got a big D.

But I have three motorcycles a sure sign of personal success.

KungFooBob wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:10 am I don't got a big D.

But I have three motorcycles a sure sign of personal success.

Me neither... i don't have a lot in terms of education in that context. C&G and an OND. Neither of which are even remotely to do with what my job is now.

(My old local tech was where all the engineering places and companies with lots of machinery to maintain sent apprentice engineers to 'night school' to do Tech Drawing etc...now it does hairdressing and catering courses. There's a demand for both but there doesn't seem to be anything on engineering. Not even sure there's such a thing as 'night school' any more. We also had a couple of dusty/chalky old Grammar schools and a sparkly new Technical Grammar...with v impressive woodwork and metalwork facilities).

I should add to that ^^^ that demand has changed massively. That area had various things using lots of machinery that have all disappeared - a significant hosiery industry, at least one shoe factory, umpteen coal mines, quite a few fair sized engineering outfits (not to mention a gasworks and a brewery ). Now if you asked 'what do you make here?' a local would scratch their head and wonder what you mean.

I also note that the final part of the current jigsaw is nobody wants to teach maths or science subjects. Schools are struggling to get people. I suppose that if you understand enough to teach the subjects there are other opportunities that pay better etc because the skills are in short supply and teaching isn't the job it used to be.

On the bright side my great-nephew is still getting day release training in gas work, pipe-fitting and sparky stuff as part of his job so some places still do Tech training. I doubt he'll ever be out of work too

Dagnabbit I just messed up - I was trying to reply to my own post and ended up editing most of it out. Obvs a Tech guru.

Anyways for anyone interested the original, sadly deleted, link to the 'History of Mr Poly' arf! was:

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cab ... chnics.htm

weeksy wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:15 am

KungFooBob wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:10 am I don't got a big D.

But I have three motorcycles a sure sign of personal success.

Me neither... i don't have a lot in terms of education in that context. C&G and an OND. Neither of which are even remotely to do with what my job is now.

We're those types Pony hates, "No Degree, works in IT".

I have got a degree, at age 50 I did an MBA. My earlier education was via an apprenticeship and more C&Gs than you can shake a stick at.

KungFooBob wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:28 am

weeksy wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:15 am

KungFooBob wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:10 am I don't got a big D.

But I have three motorcycles a sure sign of personal success.

Me neither... i don't have a lot in terms of education in that context. C&G and an OND. Neither of which are even remotely to do with what my job is now.

We're those types Pony hates, "No Degree, works in IT".

He hates my type as well, "No Degree, comfortably retired, toxic elderly, not paying enough for my previous polluting.".

I'm doing my best to stay alive, just to continue pissing his type off.

Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:41 am I have got a degree, at age 50 I did an MBA. My earlier education was via an apprenticeship and more C&Gs than you can shake a stick at.

I signed up for an Exec MBA just before Covid landed, they then pulled the course! Haven't been arsed since and doubt I'll try again.....

Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:43 am BTW, the best routes unto Media are

1) A 1st from Oxbridge
2) An apprenticeship via a local rag.

0) Having a relative who works in the media.

Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:41 am Media Studies is perfectly valid, IF it is a real academic course, with rigorous stsndards. Many, perhaps most, are not. They are a soft option. Same with many other 'new' subjects.

I did a Media Studies 2 year course in the early 90's. It wasn't a degree but it was basically useless!! Hopefully the degree versions are WAY better now!!

weeksy wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:15 am

Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:59 am A better idea might be to go back to a lot fewer but 'better' degrees, in usefull stuff like emgineering, medicine, and stuff. A few less degrees in Meeja Studies and Performing Arts. Then we coukd afford to fund the degrees.

lol how 1950s of you... shall we put women back in the kitchen too ?

You're aware the world moves on, evolves, changes... Media Studies is a perfectly valid course in this modern world.


From reading this thread it seems 'you lot' are happy to fund the things you think are worthwhile, but not things that others think are worthwhile...

Jamie Lang, famous for being heir to the McVities fortune and for being thick. He has a degree in media studies. Which to my mind, shows just how weak a degree it is and in the same breath shows that it's not at all valid.