The Brexit thread

[Count Steer]

Heard a good stat on the radio recently. It is estimated, given voting profiles, that 1 million Brexit voters are now dead. Didn't even stick around to enjoy the fruits of their labours.

[Potter]

In the space of 5 years, two Tory PMs have spoken out about the issue of low pay and immigration. They have had plenty of time to prepare the UK for the effects of Brexit, while publicly recognising the issues.

I'm agreeing they haven't provisioned for it, but if I were acting in their defence I'd suggest that reversing 50yrs of policy, in the face of massive opposition, might be more of a challenge than Boris (who is two steps away from being a halfwit) waving a magic wand when he takes over a party mostly staffed by people that were dead against Brexit from the outset.

Edited...instead of seeming like I'm making excuses, what is the solution then? I mean like an actual working solution, not just a sentence on an ideal outcome.

[irie]

Loving how Brexit and Covid side effects are being conflated, pure quality.

[Horse]

lots and lots of carers required. That's another area which is going to need to up it's pay rates.

If it's funded by local councils, are the rates that they pay going to rise?

[Potter]

Loving how Brexit and Covid side effects are being conflated, pure quality.

Everyone knows that Brexit didn't cause the issues, but it's fun trying to play chess with people that think they did.

Both sides of the table are claiming victories and losses for the same things.

[Count Steer]

Loving how Brexit and Covid side effects are being conflated, pure quality.

What Covid side-effects?

[Horse]

Loving how Brexit and Covid side effects are being conflated, pure quality.

What Covid side-effects?

Guessing, truck drivers sick or isolating?

[Count Steer]

Loving how Brexit and Covid side effects are being conflated, pure quality.

What Covid side-effects?

Guessing, truck drivers sick or isolating?

Ah. Those truck drivers that are still here. I see.

At a tangent I found this on the CIPD web site:

'Statistics from early 2018 showed that while 72% of employers have a dedicated training budget, growth in this area was comparatively slow. More than half (55%) said that leaving the EU has had no impact on their training and skills development investment, while 20% said it had caused them to reduce it. This shows that some employers are dialling back on development and training, at the very time they should be investing heavily to mitigate against the real risk of the current skills shortage worsening post-Brexit.

Interestingly, organisations that employ EU nationals were significantly more likely than employers that don’t recruit EU nationals to be investing in training and seeking to recruit from a wider range of under-represented or disadvantaged groups, such as older workers or those from minority ethnic backgrounds. This strongly indicates that organisations which employ EU migrants were typically doing so as part of wider efforts to find the labour they require and to build workforce skills, not because they were failing to invest in UK-born workers or looking to cut costs.'

So 55% of employers planned to do nothing, 20% to reduce training and skills development. Meanwhile, the ones that employ EU nationals were more likely to invest in UK-born workers.

[Yambo]

Heard a good stat on the radio recently. It is estimated, given voting profiles, that 1 million Brexit voters are now dead. Didn't even stick around to enjoy the fruits of their labours.

[slowsider]

Heard a good stat on the radio recently. It is estimated, given voting profiles, that 1 million Brexit voters are now dead. Didn't even stick around to enjoy the fruits of their labours.

Après-moi, le deluge. To quote a prominent forriner.

[Potter]

Interestingly, organisations that employ EU nationals were significantly more likely than employers that don’t recruit EU nationals to be investing in training and seeking to recruit from a wider range of under-represented or disadvantaged groups, such as older workers or those from minority ethnic backgrounds. This strongly indicates that organisations which employ EU migrants were typically doing so as part of wider efforts to find the labour they require and to build workforce skills, not because they were failing to invest in UK-born workers or looking to cut costs.'

Translated that means they looked at more cost effective ways to recruit people rather than running the sort of schemes that the majority of native prospective employees would engage with.

Employers looking to save money on their workforce are the ones that dig around in all corners looking for people to recruit that won't demand high pay and packages. They're much more likely to recruit from older workers or those from minority ethnic backgrounds and then try to train them to do what they want them to do - it's cheaper.

[Horse]

Employers looking to save money on their workforce are the ones that dig around in all corners looking for people to recruit that won't demand high pay and packages. They're much more likely to recruit from older workers or those from minority ethnic backgrounds and then try to train them to do what they want them to do - it's cheaper.

Really? In the last couple of years I've had colleagues from:
Singapore
South Africa
Canada
Italy
France
India
and many more besides. Including Wales.

The company, as far as I know, didn't 'dig around' for them.

[Potter]

Really? In the last couple of years I've had colleagues from:
Singapore
South Africa
Canada
Italy
France
India
and many more besides. Including Wales.

The company, as far as I know, didn't 'dig around' for them.

All low or semi-skilled blue collar workers?

[Potter]

And further to this, apprenticeship schemes weren't done out of the goodness of peoples hearts, they were done because it was a cheap way to have hands on deck, by the 2nd/3rd year they're really useful, then hopefully they stick around and they're cheap to employ (and you've had control of their training) until they're well into adulthood.
Even some white collar schemes were the same, like graduate schemes, they pay people low wages and it takes ten years until they're on the same as someone they'd have to buy in any other way, but they're effective for years before that.

These schemes got dropped in many cases because it was cheaper to either employ cheaper ready trained labour from elsewhere, or de-skill the role and employ someone cheaper, with in-house training to just about get them passable.

Employers don't go around hunting for diversity (unless they're the Met filling quotas), they try and cut costs and go looking for alternative options and that's who they end up with - not in every case, but it's a well trodden path.

[DefTrap]

We seem to be coming round to the fact that the UK has an arsey workforce who would prefer to sit at home on benefits, rather than work hard in the pig-killing and bag-shitting industries. Not that surprising is it?

So, it turns out that Brexit is just another way to have a pop at the workers. Now that there aren't any immigrants to have a pop at anyway. You got there in the end. Brexited away ....

[Potter]

We seem to be coming round to the fact that the UK has an arsey workforce who would prefer to sit at home on benefits, rather than work hard in the pig-killing and bag-shitting industries. Not that surprising is it?

So, it turns out that Brexit is just another way to have a pop at the workers. Now that there aren't any immigrants to have a pop at anyway. You got there in the end. Brexited away ....

It's more complicated than that, it's not always about someone getting fucked.
It's about trying to find a reasonable pathway, e.g. the apprentices got a trade, the employers got a cheap employee pipeline.

I think the pendulum swung too far to the right, you can't have workers unions crippling the country, but you can't have rampant capitalism rinsing them either.

Brexit was a protest vote, I honestly believe for most that was all it was.

[Potter]

It's really hard to take a stand on anything related to Brexit because it's six of one and half a dozen of the other, you end up trying to argue points from multiple angles.
The only people that can take a single view on a point are the politically ignorant and dogmatic.

[DefTrap]

Maybe we just need to accept that there are some jobs folk don't really want to do in "this day and age" because they're a bit crap? And if the industries don't want to pour money into training and wages and the government refuses to help (to make a point?) then just let those industries die.

Market forces innit.

Abattoir worker wages start at 9.50 an hour by the way. Who wouldn't want some of that sweet, sweet Brexit gold? Seriously though - that's not a thrilling package when I could be at home in the warm dreaming of being a YouTube playa.

[Pirahna]

Really? In the last couple of years I've had colleagues from:
Singapore
South Africa
Canada
Italy
France
India
and many more besides. Including Wales.

The company, as far as I know, didn't 'dig around' for them.

All low or semi-skilled blue collar workers?

The last team I worked in had people from France, Spain, Portugal and Italy plus a couple of native English speakers (me and another bloke but I'm half Irish). The only one of the Europeans left is an Italian girl, all the others have gone either home or to other jobs in Europe. We're talking £100k plus a year skilled IT people, definitely not the sort you'd easily replaced.

Apart from Covid and Brexit there's a global shortage of semiconductors which is helping to mask any skilled labour shortage. The auto industry has been forced to slow or even stop production in some areas for example. Any industry that t required a computer chip is struggling.

[Horse]

Really? In the last couple of years I've had colleagues from:
Singapore
South Africa
Canada
Italy
France
India
and many more besides. Including Wales.

The company, as far as I know, didn't 'dig around' for them.

All low or semi-skilled blue collar workers?

Industry experts, or well-qualified and becoming experienced in their fields.