The Brexit thread

[DefTrap]

I just thought that the UK should be out of the German/French club and when asked I gave my opinion. It had nothing to do with cheap labour so stop tarring everyone with your thick Brexiters brush please.

Which is exactly why brexit won. The government realised that the brexiters didn't care about the consequences. It's like the antivax argument " I have my opinion and I don't care".

[Hoonercat]

Brexiters wanted to see UK industries going under, making the UK more reliant on EU imports? Gosh I hadn't realised that, I thought it was those nasty remainers hoping for carnage just so they could say 'I told you so'.

I think some people want the same thing for different reasons, although it seems some on both sides of the fence want things to fail to prove their point.

The UK pork industry has been discussed on this forum previously (or maybe the ther place), as it was one of the UK industries which was seen as being particularly vulnerable after Brexit. The brexiters' argument was 'jobs for the British and better pay'. That hasn't happened, despite having 5 years to prepare for it.
I can't imagine there are too many Brexit voters who believe that EU pork producers benefiting from the collapse of the UK pork industry would in any way 'prove their point'. Unless they're moving the goalposts, of course.

[Potter]

I'm sure the pig farmers are thrilled that they're being 'slaughtered' (aha!) to prove a really fecking obvious point.

This is the tip of the iceberg. What's the next industry previously fuelled by forriners that will feel the pinch? Gravediggers? Prozzies?

Pony's correct about sticking head in the sand over this. It's been obvious for years which industries would get bent out of shape: f&d manufacturing; hospitality; healthcare; cleaning. There's been very dull studies written on the subject.

Not to do anything about it is hilarious. Let's just tick them off while they all crash.

Fair point, but what to do, keep sucking on the tit that poisons you or come off it and go hungry for a bit.

The only people I see complaining about these things are remainers, so perhaps the brexiters are all happy to weather the storm?

[Potter]

I can't imagine there are too many Brexit voters who believe that EU pork producers benefiting from the collapse of the UK pork industry would in any way 'prove their point'. Unless they're moving the goalposts, of course.

On the contrary, if the pork barons go bust then I think the Brexiters will point and explain that they shouldn't have built their empire on cheap foreign labour.

[Yambo]

I just thought that the UK should be out of the German/French club and when asked I gave my opinion. It had nothing to do with cheap labour so stop tarring everyone with your thick Brexiters brush please.

Which is exactly why brexit won. The government realised that the brexiters didn't care about the consequences. It's like the antivax argument " I have my opinion and I don't care".

Then stop being an arsehole throwing shit at people for simply giving their opinion to a straightforward question and direct your childish angst at the politicians that failed to put a qualifier on the vote,, failed to deliver a decent argument for staying in, failed to get better terms for staying in, failed to have a plan in the event of a leave vote, failed to organise our leaving, failed to arrange decent terms on things that might be important in the future and failed miserably at getting arseholes to accept the decision.

You're like a cracked and tedious old 33 record whose only decent attribute is hindsight. Get over yourself.

[DefTrap]

.. direct your childish angst at the politicians that failed to put a qualifier on the vote,, failed to deliver a decent argument for staying in, failed to get better terms for staying in, failed to have a plan in the event of a leave vote, failed to organise our leaving, failed to arrange decent terms on things that might be important in the future and failed miserably at getting arseholes to accept the decision.

The government 'you brexiters' voted in to deliver the revered 'oven-ready brexit'?
Yeah I find it amazing that brexiters wanted brexit apparently whatever-the-cost and have then washed their hands of responsibility for it. Shame at being gullible?

[Lutin]

Only 127 fuel drivers apply for UK visa - PM

Only 127 fuel drivers from overseas have applied for temporary visas aimed at tackling shortages, the Prime Minister has said.

Boris Johnson said the haulage industry had "only produced 127 names so far" in response to the government's scheme, which is aiming for 300 drivers.

To which I would reply that Bozo has, once again, got the wrong end of the stick. Why would they even bother to come to the UK if there is a global shortage of HGV drivers? Surely they would be needed in their own countries?

Maybe it's the "no foreigners here" attitude that the UK is promoting post brexit.

[DefTrap]

Fair point, but what to do, keep sucking on the tit that poisons you or come off it and go hungry for a bit.

You'd think 'planning' would mitigate it a bit. Schemes to fund training; schemes to help the industry to improve conditions; encouragement to raise pay. It can't just be left to market forces - one of the outcomes of market forces is total system breakdown after all.

The only people I see complaining about these things are remainers, so perhaps the brexiters are all happy to weather the storm?

Lolz.
The red-leaning red tops are already deserting the sinking ship. You can't have it both ways.

[Noggin]

I do find it incredible that people actually vote for this fuckwit. Who then proceeded to tear up the half decent deal that Theresa May had and used his oven ready version that even leaders from other countries are amazed that the UK went with

I know I don't know much about politics. And I don't trust politicians. I tend to stay out of these arguments because what I say always seems a bit naive, just because I do not understand how they all get away with so much lying and deceit - but someone put this up on FB and I've disliked Boris Johnson for many years due to his lies and ability to say what is best for him, not what is best for the town/city/country.

HTF is he the best that could be voted for?? Why didn't people see him for a two faced lying shitbag when he was showing off his bus? Was there really no better person to lead or are all politicians two faced lying shitbags just in it for the money?





I am aware that this probably isn't a true comment, however I'm pretty sure he wasn't in favour of Brexit till it offered him chance and money

[Potter]

You'd think 'planning' would mitigate it a bit. Schemes to fund training; schemes to help the industry to improve conditions; encouragement to raise pay. It can't just be left to market forces - one of the outcomes of market forces is total system breakdown after all.

The UK governments of my lifetime have only ever reacted to things that happen.

On top of that, the Tory party didn't want or expect Brexit, as soon as it happened anyone holding the reigns dropped them and ran off.
Labour actually wanted it but didn't dare say so, and they weren't capable of winning an election anyway.

Looking to the government to fix your problems is wishful thinking, and expecting them to plan in advance for them is barmy.

[Horse]

Only 127 fuel drivers apply for UK visa - PM

Only 127 fuel drivers from overseas have applied for temporary visas aimed at tackling shortages, the Prime Minister has said.

Boris Johnson said the haulage industry had "only produced 127 names so far" in response to the government's scheme, which is aiming for 300 drivers.

To which I would reply that Bozo has, once again, got the wrong end of the stick. Why would they even bother to come to the UK if there is a global shortage of HGV drivers? Surely they would be needed in their own countries?

Maybe it's the "no foreigners here" attitude that the UK is promoting post brexit.

You really can't trust the meeja. First the BBC, then The Express - now The Times!

They say '27':

[DefTrap]

The UK governments of my lifetime have only ever reacted to things that happen.

On top of that, the Tory party didn't want or expect Brexit, as soon as it happened anyone holding the reigns dropped them and ran off.
Labour actually wanted it but didn't dare say so, and they weren't capable of winning an election anyway.

Looking to the government to fix your problems is wishful thinking, and expecting them to plan in advance for them is barmy.

Sounds like excuses.
The vote was five years ago - this is when the baseless promises were made and the reality decried as project fear.
Once that decision was made this train was going to arrive at the station - covid has just delayed it a bit.

[Potter]

Sounds like excuses.
The vote was five years ago - this is when the baseless promises were made and the reality decried as project fear.
Once that decision was made this train was going to arrive at the station - covid has just delayed it a bit.

Like I said, you keep blatantly ignoring that a lot of the brexit voters were doing so on the back of a complaint that the UK was being propped up by foreigners, so they sat by for five years waiting to be proved right. Now they've been proved right you're saying "See, we told you so" and they're saying the same.

These people voted against the government, so it shouldn't come as any surprise that the government have done nothing about the problem that they said never existed in the first place.

[Mussels]

If visas are being offered then just maybe it's not Brexit to blame, that leaves the pandemic and IR35.
Lorry drivers aren't staying away because of Brexit and any anti-EU sentiment, they are staying away because they will make less money since April this year when the Labour changes to tax took full effect (specifically affecting private sector agency workers).
That tax has a big effect on agency workers so it might well include meat processors. The answer for companies hasn't changed, they need to raise pay rates to counter the extra tax if they want those workers.

[DefTrap]

... a lot of the brexit voters were doing so on the back of a complaint that the UK was being propped up by foreigners, so they sat by for five years waiting to be proved right. N

The Brexit moral high ground destroyed in 2 sentences there. Have to be proved right before moving on in a considered manner. I can accept that, being right is nice innit? But you'd still think there would be some substance to this oven-ready plan? Ready to thwack on the table?
All Boris has got is going cap in hand back to forrin truckers and oh dear they've told him to feck off.

[Hoonercat]

Sounds like excuses.
The vote was five years ago - this is when the baseless promises were made and the reality decried as project fear.
Once that decision was made this train was going to arrive at the station - covid has just delayed it a bit.

Like I said, you keep blatantly ignoring that a lot of the brexit voters were doing so on the back of a complaint that the UK was being propped up by foreigners, so they sat by for five years waiting to be proved right.

I remember it vividly back at the old place all those years ago. Remainers warning of the consequences of leaving the EU, Brexiters in agreement that UK industries would find themselves in dire straits as they struggled to meet demand due to not being able to recruit workers.
We all got on so well that there were hardly any Brexit threads at all

[irie]

The answer for companies hasn't changed, they need to raise pay rates to counter the extra tax if they want those workers.

This.

[Potter]

I remember it vividly back at the old place all those years ago. Remainers warning of the consequences of leaving the EU, Brexiters in agreement that UK industries would find themselves in dire straits as they struggled to meet demand due to not being able to recruit workers.
We all got on so well that there were hardly any Brexit threads at all

And from the other side of the looking glass Brexiters were saying the UK is managed by Brussels and staffed by cheap EU immigration, and the remainers were saying it was all lies and the UK doesn't need Brexit because it has control of it's government and immigration.

Now it's over it seems that the UK was managed by Brussels and staffed by cheap immigration.

Over a millennia ago Bede reported exactly the same thing.

[Yambo]

The current situation is, without doubt, down to our being in the EU. Not down to our leaving the EU but our membership of it.

All the time we spent in the EU saw the gradual erosion of quality people in Parliament. Let's face it, with Brussels calling all the shots, the Mother of all Parliaments didn't have much to do, a bit of tinkering with domestic policies, play with the tax system a bit, reduce the armed forces while taking on a bit of deputy work for the world's policeman and not much else. Is it any wonder that now, when strong leadership is needed, a robust Opposition is essential and clear ideas about the way forward are vital, we have the most useless bunch of politicians in Parliament in living memory.

They've been there for a few years. they called the referendum, they failed miserably in arguing the case (for either side) and they failed to plan for either outcome. They are, basically, a useless bunch of self serving tossers. And no, I didn't vote for any of the fuckin' wankers in the last election.

Boris is a tosser leading a bunch of tossers. Starmer is a woke tosser leading a bunch of anachronistic tossers who don't even understand the meaning of the word Opposition. They say you get the government you deserve. How true is that statement today. Stand for election at the next opportunity DefTrap, you have all the answers and I'd vote for you! Hoonercat, come back to the UK - your country needs you! Or am I the only person that thinks you'd be better than the current crop of wankers?

Membership of the EU caused, permitted, allowed Parliament to be filled with . . . nobodies. It's gonna take a bit of time to sort that out guys. It needs good, smart people to take over the reins (they're going to need to be persuaded) and get us out of the shit and anyone who thinks the wankers that got us into the shit in the first place can do it is every bit as deluded as those wankers.

You're going to need patience. And maybe bribery. You certainly don't need most or the tossers you've currently got. Now stop whinging and saying I told you so, put your money where your mouth is and start campaigning for a seat in Parliament so you can sort things out. You're country needs you, not Romanians with a LGV licence and slaughterhouse experience.

[Horse]

they called the referendum, they failed miserably in arguing the case (for either side) and they failed to plan for either outcome.

Two sides to the vote:

Remain, who either didn't understand the issues, or did but were content with the status quo.
Leave, who had any number of different reasons and levels of understanding, some believing the various promises, some not.

No-one could really predict what would happen. But they neither side really even tried.


Although, there might be one exception?
Farage is now offering financial [not] advice, re-using the 'take back control' slogan. So, take [not] advice on your finances from the man who famously described himself as 'skint'? Perhaps he might predict where that will get you ...