Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

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Horse
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Horse »

Mussels wrote: Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:39 pm Even GB news agrees EVs are safer.
Vehicle fire rates drop across the UK thanks to more 'plug-in' cars despite being a 'major worry'.
Personally I think EV evangelists are exaggerating how safe they are, some of the stats that seem to be widely used:
ICE cars are 20 times more likely to catch fire.
65% of car fires are started deliberately, are we to believe arsonists find Teslas too adorable?

I'm going to reserve judgement until there are enough 20 year old unloved EVs around to make a decent comparison.
Are you aware of the Zafira problems?

https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/201 ... our-years/

Vauxhall Zafira B cars have been recalled for a second time as a "preventative action" due to fire concerns.

Updated figures show that so far this year London firefighters have attended 14 Vauxhall Zafira car fires. Since 2013, the London Fire Brigade has been called to 120 fires involving Zafira's more than double the number of the previous four year period (2009-2012).

All the figures discounted deliberate fires involving the vehicles.

Vauxhall Zafira B cars recalled again over fire risk, following a series of fires.


Vauxhall recalled them for a third time. There were about 200 fires.
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Mussels »

Horse wrote: Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:50 pm
Mussels wrote: Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:39 pm Even GB news agrees EVs are safer.
Vehicle fire rates drop across the UK thanks to more 'plug-in' cars despite being a 'major worry'.
Personally I think EV evangelists are exaggerating how safe they are, some of the stats that seem to be widely used:
ICE cars are 20 times more likely to catch fire.
65% of car fires are started deliberately, are we to believe arsonists find Teslas too adorable?

I'm going to reserve judgement until there are enough 20 year old unloved EVs around to make a decent comparison.
Are you aware of the Zafira problems?

https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/201 ... our-years/

Vauxhall Zafira B cars have been recalled for a second time as a "preventative action" due to fire concerns.

Updated figures show that so far this year London firefighters have attended 14 Vauxhall Zafira car fires. Since 2013, the London Fire Brigade has been called to 120 fires involving Zafira's more than double the number of the previous four year period (2009-2012).

All the figures discounted deliberate fires involving the vehicles.

Vauxhall Zafira B cars recalled again over fire risk, following a series of fires.


Vauxhall recalled them for a third time. There were about 200 fires.
I didn't mention the second most common cause of ICE fires is electrical faults, these will affect EVs just as much as they age.
Rather than Zafiras* I was thinking of BMW who used too thin cables for stop/start cars, at least EVs won't have that issue.

* Vauxhall cars don't count for me because they are only bought by people who don't care in the slightest about cars and buy them because they liked a cuddly toy dancing to a heavy base track.
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Horse »

Mussels wrote: Fri Jun 13, 2025 8:57 pm I was thinking of BMW who used too thin cables for stop/start cars, at least EVs won't have that issue.
BMW have recently had bigger issues than that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-64471386

A "catastrophic" engine failure saw a police BMW catch fire and spin off the road, killing its driver. The fault had been known about for years. The officer's widow now wants answers. Why did no-one warn her husband of the risks? And why are these cars still on the road?

On a Sunday afternoon in January 2020, roads policing officer PC Nick Dumphreys was responding to an emergency call on the M6.

Unknown to him, the engine in his BMW 330d was liable to shatter and burst into flames.

As he neared 130mph, two parts of the engine failed. A third part fractured, puncturing a fourth. Oil spilled on to the wheels and road, igniting and sending the vehicle spinning. The car veered off the motorway, overturned and caught fire. PC Dumphreys was killed.

His force, Cumbria Constabulary, had known for years there were problems with the model of engine in his car - the N57. The risk was so real, all UK forces had been sent guidance on how to use and maintain vehicles that had it.

Now the BBC can reveal 32 of England's 39 police forces are still using cars with the same engine. Only four forces would say how many though, with them admitting 63 vehicles were still in service.

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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Saga Lout »

Light Up Your Life With A Taycan.

I wonder if VAG would like to buy that slogan from me.

https://maritimesafetyinnovationlab.org ... h-2022.pdf

See page 29: "6.18 The Porche [sic] TAYCAN where, according to the evidence of the crew, the fire started is an electrical vehicle using large batteries of 800V which is higher than other usual electrical vehicles."

In other news: the fire on the Morning Midas appears to have been extinguished by the simple method of allowing it to use up all the fuel. Only took the best part of two weeks.
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Taipan »

Having owned a highly desirable, ergo often stolen vehicle, I wondered if Teslas were stolen often? I just read this which is vey reassuring!
While the perception of how "hard" it is to steal a Tesla can vary and is often influenced by sensationalised news or social media, here's a general overview of the security measures in place for Teslas and common methods thieves might attempt:
Tesla's Security Features (Making it "Harder" to Steal):
Key Card/Phone Key:
Phone Key: The primary method for many owners is using their smartphone as a key via the Tesla app. This uses Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) for authentication.
Key Card: A credit-card-sized key that needs to be tapped on the B-pillar to unlock and on the centre console to start.
These methods are generally more secure than traditional car keys, as they are harder to duplicate physically.
PIN to Drive:
This is a highly effective security feature. Even if a thief gets a key, they cannot drive the car without a 4-digit PIN entered on the touchscreen.
This protects against relay attacks (see below) and simple key theft.
Sentry Mode:
When enabled, Sentry Mode uses the car's external cameras to monitor the surroundings for suspicious activity.
If a significant threat is detected (e.g., someone leaning on the car, breaking a window), the car alarm activates, the touchscreen displays a warning, the headlights flash, and the owner is notified on their phone with a video recording of the event.
This acts as a powerful deterrent and provides evidence.
GPS Tracking:
All Teslas have integrated GPS tracking, which can be viewed through the mobile app.
In the event of theft, owners can track the car's location, which significantly aids recovery efforts by law enforcement.
Remote Disablement/Lockdown:
Tesla can potentially remotely disable or lock down a stolen vehicle, though this is typically done in cooperation with law enforcement.
No Physical Ignition/OBD Port Hacking:
Unlike many traditional cars, Teslas don't have a physical ignition cylinder or a easily accessible OBD (On-Board Diagnostics) port that can be used for quick hot-wiring or key programming.
Common Theft Methods (and how Teslas counter them):
Relay Attack (Key Fob Cloning):
This involves two thieves: one near the owner's key fob (e.g., inside their house) and another near the car. Devices "relay" the signal from the fob to the car, tricking the car into thinking the key is present.
Tesla Countermeasures: While older Tesla key fobs were susceptible, newer key cards and phone keys are less so. Crucially, PIN to Drive completely negates this attack, as even with a "cloned" key, the thief won't have the PIN.
Tow Away:
The simplest method, where thieves simply tow the car.
Tesla Countermeasures: Sentry Mode would detect this and notify the owner. GPS tracking allows for immediate location and recovery.
Breaking and Entering (Smash and Grab):
To steal contents, or potentially to try and access the car in an attempt to hack it.
Tesla Countermeasures: Sentry Mode would record the event and alert the owner.
App Hacking/Account Compromise:
If a thief gains access to a Tesla owner's account credentials, they could potentially use the phone key feature.
Tesla Countermeasures: Two-factor authentication (2FA) on your Tesla account is crucial to prevent this.
Conclusion: How "Hard" is it?
Compared to many traditional vehicles, stealing a Tesla is generally considered significantly harder due to its layered and advanced security features, especially "PIN to Drive" and "Sentry Mode." These features make quick, opportunistic thefts very difficult and provide strong deterrence and recovery capabilities.
While no car is 100% theft-proof, Tesla's integrated technology goes a long way in mitigating common car theft methods. The most significant vulnerabilities typically involve the owner not activating available security features (like PIN to Drive) or having their account credentials compromised due to poor password practices or lack of 2FA.
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

AMG may have taken the V8 out of the C-Class, but they've put it back in their new EV :thumbup:

No word yet on how inflammable it is.

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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by ZRX61 »

Oh dear...

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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Horse »

Fire! Fire! :flame:

But is it true? Oh, who might have facts and a view on EV fires? Especially after crashes!


– The damage rarely reaches the battery
– We look at the electric car like we look at a regular car.

That's what Rune Wiggo Johnsen says. He is a fire chief and emergency manager – and works in the fire service with training on handling electric cars.

Rune's experience is that the battery pack is the strongest component in a car. He has studied wrecks, cars that have run over heavy steel bars – and torn and worn them to test what they can withstand in terms of freeing people.

– It is rare for the damage to reach the battery itself. The battery pack is located low and between the wheels. You have large collision zones both front and rear, and if someone hits the side, the impact point is usually above the battery box, says Johnsen.

Even when the battery is damaged, often nothing happens, as in the videos above.

– If a fire occurs, the battery is built with fire barriers between the battery modules, so that the fire does not spread between the modules

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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Pirahna »

I found the bloke a bit annoying but an interesting topic. To summarise, Chinese car makers are happy to supply test vehicles to journalists, they'll pay for flights to China, or cover any expenses plus a nice bonus on top for making the video. In return for taking the money, you can't say anything bad about the car. An example of someone getting paid is Jonny Smith testing a Jaecoo, I'll pop his video below as well.




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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Taipan »

Electric Cars: How Safe Are They?
Ch5
8:00 PM to 9:00 PM
Wednesday 25 June

Exploring public concerns about electric vehicles, featuring new and exclusive research and interviews with leading industry experts. This documentary takes a look at the safety and performance of EVs, while discovering the truth behind the headlines about everything from battery technology to cables. Including footage from real-life experiences
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Saga Lout »

The Morning Midas has finally sunk. Now we'll never know what kind of ICE vehicle started the fire and sank all those lovely EVs.

https://www.marinelog.com/news/zodiac-m ... al-waters/
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Taipan »

:?


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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by McSatan »

I've got another one, a Jeep Avenger. It's much better than the first Avenger I had, which was a Hillman. In fact, it's bloody brilliant. Got a decent range but only really used locally, leaving the M3 for playing in.
Still got the Zero SR/F as well, two years now, the utterly insane acceleration still makes me grin every time I ride it :)
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Noggin »

Your description of the Zero SR/F made me want to try one when you first posted about it - still want to, just not sure I can hang on with both hands :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

You know when I say battery tech is coming along rapidly...

AMG launched their new concept car today, a production version is likely to follow soon although they've not said for sure.

850kW charging capability, which means you could charge for 280 miles range in 5 minutes.

Slight downside in that there are no public chargers yet which can deliver anywhere near that :lol: But it also means charging at a 'normal' high power 350kW charger would not tax the battery at all and you wouldn't have to worry much about performance loss through rapid charging.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-ger ... 60hp/49997
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Taipan »

Taipan wrote: Mon Jun 23, 2025 8:00 pm Electric Cars: How Safe Are They?
Ch5
8:00 PM to 9:00 PM
Wednesday 25 June

Exploring public concerns about electric vehicles, featuring new and exclusive research and interviews with leading industry experts. This documentary takes a look at the safety and performance of EVs, while discovering the truth behind the headlines about everything from battery technology to cables. Including footage from real-life experiences
Watching it now...
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by MrLongbeard »

Finding it very hard not to throw my bottle of rum through the TV, this is even more sensationalised than the crash program last wek
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by KungFooBob »

MrLongbeard wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 8:35 pm Finding it very hard not to throw my bottle of rum through the TV, this is even more sensationalised than the crash program last wek
The clue is... ch5.
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by MrLongbeard »

Yep, air India crash next week, conspiracy theories abound when half the wreakage is still to be recovered.
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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by KungFooBob »

That is some scary depreciation...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-detail ... 2129028040

Almost a grand a mile.
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