Depression

[Couchy]

Can I add to what Docca has said, the NHS was all but useless and I had citalopram as the first option, it didn't work and I didn't go back. I tried CBT therapy and that didn't work. There was a couple of other tablets too that didn't work. I'd all but given up but the last episode was serious and a friend found me a local counsellor. Initial meeting with them was to see if we get on, this seems the key and luckily we did. It is private but I was seen within 48hrs and now it's weekly. Mine was found here

https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/

For my mindset this type of psychotherapy helps as it's basically me talking through the issues and with some prompting me getting a better understanding of them. My brain likes to solve problems and needs to identify things, once I can do that I am happy to work on them. I'm simplifying it a bit and it doesn't sound much but it's been a huge help so far.

[Screwdriver]

Thanks for the replies, I am somewhat overwhelmed.

There is no danger of me doing any harm currently, I went through that period for a few years (!) a year or so ago now. I should probably rid myself of some of the mechanisms I put in place for use had I lost all hope. Thankfully I do have someone who peers over my shoulder and helped me through those dark days and gave me hope.

CBT and psychotherapy does not work on me, I am too much of a clever cloggs (i.e. a twat) and inevitably it ends up being a battle. That is of course with either the NHS freebies <expletive deleted> or low end private consultant practices which just offered slightly trickier "competition".

You don't have to tell me that's the wrong way to approach therapy! I can easily intellectualise the process, I know what I am doing wrong but I can't help myself and they can't help me. Some of the shit I have been through I dare not speak of and again, I appreciate that is still part of the problem.

This so called "non-presenting MS" is obviously a bitter pill to swallow. It is invisible as you might expect except for how I react to any given situation. I do not handle stress well at all and all that can be seen of this chronic illness is that I can be a complete asshole. There is a strong possibility that since this is simply random destruction of brain material, it will strike somewhere more obvious. Arms, legs, heart, respiratory system are all potential targets for the next "relapse". Perhaps I was lucky "only" to lose part of my eyesight but it is the sword of Damocles. It's always there, there is no cure and it is getting worse.

I can try to ignore it but my subconscious won't let me. It is difficult to plan for the future when you don't have one.

I am still building up an impressive workshop facility, still planning to finish off a few bikes but now I'll just get them going and get them gone. I need to start going through this massive hoard and getting it out of my way. Save the "I'll help you get rid of that" jokes, I've heard them all and I already have plans for who gets to go through Aladdins cave after a lifetime of hoarding.

Motivation is the key and if that means drugs - give me drugs!

[Potter]

The best story about anxiety I ever heard...

A young guy comes back from Vietnam, he thought he was fine, things are normal and then a few weeks later he gets up and starts to make his breakfast (he's living with his parents). The toast gets stuck in the toaster, and he proceeds to smash the holy shit out of the toaster and everything he can lay his hands on, then a few minutes later he's sitting down and wondering what the fuck just happened.

His dad walks in, sees the mess and looks at the son. The son quietly says "The toast got stuck".
The old man (who had been in WW2) nods and says "Yeah, it did it to me too" and gets on with making his own breakfast.

I'm just like the young guy in the story.
I've never met the dad type of character and I wish there were more of them.

[Noggin]

The best thing that happened to me for MH was being offered to see a psychologist in the rehab centre after my second shoulder replacement - the doctors didn't understand why I was so stressed and kept crying, even though I had zero use of my arm after an operation that was supposed to make things better!!

After seeing her for about 3.5 months, once a week, she helped me balance so much stuff from the past (childhood, teen, adulthood) but also helped hugely with things since the bike crash (including the cycle crash!!). And, she spoke English, so it was relatively easy to communicate.

I wish I could go back and see her because she was ace, but it doesn't seem that easy as she's connected to the rehab centre. When I was in a different centre last summer, I asked if I could see the psychologist there as well (really wasn't dealing well with the leg break and the effect of using crutches on my shoulder) - sadly, I didn't gel with this one. Partly because she made me start over again and I had already got myself into a better place. Of course, doing it in French probably made it worse and I ended up coming out of each session stressed and in tears. So I quit as I felt myself getting worse each time.

If I could find one like the first one, I'd try and sort out to see them fairly regularly. But hey ho. I just keep going back to some of the info I got before and it does help a bit.

Everything I was taught/told in my childhood and even young adulthood by family and friends was just "chin up it'll get better" or "pull yourself together dear". And the drugs really didn't work back then!! Luckily I found somewhere to live that helps by just being here. But the absolute best is knowing I now have people I can call or go and see and that really helps - I very rarely feel the need to do either, but knowing they are there makes all the difference



@Yorick @Couchy - wish there was something I could say that would help. I'd offer a space to visit the Alps as a change of scene, but it's currently very cold which isn't positive for most! But, if staying in a teeny apartment (I'm out at work most of the time!) and being around the snow that is coming would help, then shout me. Not everyone's idea of a calming place, but if it helps, please do shout me.

[MrLongbeard]

Been referred to the NHS head shrinkers.
Prior to my first telephone appointment , although to be fair I can't decide if doing it remotely is a good thing or a bad thing, I suppose I can maintain a sliver of dignity, no matter how false, not being in person, any who digression aside, they sent me a mental health questionnaire to complete.

Ahhh well, the appointment isn't for another week, no point stewing over it until it's been chewed over and hashed out, but I foresee some aggro going forward as I'll be buggered six ways till Sunday if they want to foist the standard SSRI's on me again

After speaking to the Trainee Psychological Wellbeing Practitioner for an hour, filling in the questionnaire they'd sent along with some rather uncomfortable questions, my starting point is moderately severe levels of depression and severe levels of anxiety.

Now on a 12 week waiting list for telephone based CBT which by my reckoning will be a waste of time as I'm convinced my headfuckery is seasonal, but GP reckons I should crack on with it and see it I can develop coping strategies, I'm not convinced but seeing as I'm now in the system will see how it plays out.

[Couchy]

Been referred to the NHS head shrinkers.
Prior to my first telephone appointment , although to be fair I can't decide if doing it remotely is a good thing or a bad thing, I suppose I can maintain a sliver of dignity, no matter how false, not being in person, any who digression aside, they sent me a mental health questionnaire to complete.

Ahhh well, the appointment isn't for another week, no point stewing over it until it's been chewed over and hashed out, but I foresee some aggro going forward as I'll be buggered six ways till Sunday if they want to foist the standard SSRI's on me again

After speaking to the Trainee Psychological Wellbeing Practitioner for an hour, filling in the questionnaire they'd sent along with some rather uncomfortable questions, my starting point is moderately severe levels of depression and severe levels of anxiety.

Now on a 12 week waiting list for telephone based CBT which by my reckoning will be a waste of time as I'm convinced my headfuckery is seasonal, but GP reckons I should crack on with it and see it I can develop coping strategies, I'm not convinced but seeing as I'm now in the system will see how it plays out.

Fuck waiting use my link and get help asap. CBT hmmm it does work for some but did nothing for me. 12 weeks is too long to wait tbh

[Yorick]

McAfee fucked me up so they paid for my CBT. Very expensive at the lady's big posh house. Was a nice drive over and an hour chat.
Did bugger all. If I'd been paying I would have stopped.

But it does work for some.

[MrLongbeard]

Fuck waiting use my link and get help asap. CBT hmmm it does work for some but did nothing for me. 12 weeks is too long to wait tbh

If I had the coin I'd consider it, maybe not as seriously as I should, but that's because I'm not convinced about all this touchy feely talky stuff, whilst I'm comfortable in myself to get this stuff out there and discuss it to some degree I still have a very deep undercurrent of 'man up and get on with it' running through me (this is how I see and deal with me, it is not a reflection on how I feel about / see others, I don't want my own attitude about my headspace to put anyone off posting here).

I agree 12 weeks after waiting 4 weeks for the initial assessment is too long, and if I thought I was still as a crisis stage I'd be pulling my finger out, but the nights are drawing out.
I'm doing stuff that I couldn't previously that make me happier, and I'm leaning on my reserves of man up / learn to accept the things you cannot change store and I feel nowhere near as bad as I did, am I storing up problems for later? maybe, but for now it's working, for me, and if it lasts long enough to get me to the top of the waiting list so be it, and we'll see what happens then.

[Couchy]

So today the wife confirmed the marriage is over, me taking too long to get my illness sorted has taken its toll on her. Apparently I’m to leave but there’s no rush while we sort money and details out and I find a house. Still loves and cares for me as a friend which is fair enough and as all rooms are used here we’ll carry on our living/sleeping/eating arrangements.

Ive no idea about all the above it’s too much to take in tonight, counselling tomorrow so that’ll be fun. Dreading being in a house all alone waiting for the days I have my daughter. It’s exactly what I don’t want.

[MrLongbeard]

That's....., well I have no words, stay safe.

[MyLittleStudPony]

Couchy, I'm so sorry to hear that.

I'm not far from you and the door is always open and there's a spare room.

I know everyone is different. I went through something similar a few years back and it was all for the best and turned out well.

You may be like a twig on the shoulders of a mighty stream for a while. But things will sort themselves out. You can't rush it.

[Potter]

If I had the coin I'd consider it, maybe not as seriously as I should, but that's because I'm not convinced about all this touchy feely talky stuff, whilst I'm comfortable in myself to get this stuff out there and discuss it to some degree I still have a very deep undercurrent of 'man up and get on with it' running through me...

None of that stuff helped me even a little bit and it made me worse, I'd have to dig down and try to explain something to someone who had absolutely no idea about the sort of stuff I was talking about. I'd leave exhausted after trying to get my point across and get someone to a place where they could try to empathise with experiences and trauma that they couldn't possibly understand. CBT was clunky and if you know anything about it then it's like trying to play a card trick on someone when they know the trick.

What did help, was sitting with a bunch of blokes and sharing experiences who had been through the same. It sounds cheesy but it helped, just being able to dump a load of stuff out and not feel judged or like a rabbit in an experimental lab.

[Potter]

So today the wife confirmed the marriage is over, me taking too long to get my illness sorted has taken its toll on her.

I don't know your story, but I feel like blokes get such a hard time in this, we're expected to be stoic and not fall over under stress, we have to get up, switch on, go to work, provide, be strong, put up with all her shit, and not collapse with a glass of wine in our PJs weeping and posting on Facebook about how we're strong and independent, like women do.

Aside from being stark raving mad, part of my problem was that in my head I took the weight of all our lives on my shoulders, which would inevitably end up with me ranting when something happened that would tip me over the edge - they'd be plodding through life unburdened by the things that were slowly killing me, then I'd go pop and from their perspective dad would go nuts for the smallest things and they'd all wonder what was happening, like I was some sort of mental case.

It helps to share some burdens, recently it was - "hey, I'm not sure if we've got enough money to retire, so can I hand it all over to you and you decide what we should do" - she looked at me like I was nuts, and I was like "Yeah, this is the stuff I worry about every day, it exhausts me, whilst you don't even know it's a thing".

Like, I know I'm mental, but at least help me out a bit.
For people with anxiety the psychological burdens we place upon ourselves can be extreme and utterly crushing, and if people don't know it's going on inside your head then they end up just thinking that you're a nutter and they can't cope with you. Of course, if you tell them all about it then you confirm that you're a nutter, so it's a balance

Anyway, vaya con dios Couchy, buy her some flowers, say sorry, really mean it, try to explain what's going on in your head one last time, etc.
My door in the sun is always open, etc.

[weeksy]

Anyway, vaya con dios Couchy, buy her some flowers, say sorry, really mean it, try to explain what's going on in your head one last time, etc.

Couldn't be more the wrong answer in this circumstance i'm afraid.

[Docca]

All the man up/vikings clinking beer jugs together aside- there is a big difference between counselling and psychology. Different horses for different courses.

Working through expectations ( against perceptions) is part of the process. Pain and trauma isn’t just switched off, either. Then there is the bit about life-long investment in building autonomy (yes, that sounds like an oxymoron).

‘Didn’t understand me’ ‘load of twaddle’ ‘card trick’ ( ) - I think veers dangerously close to stigmatising therapy. It’s all voodoo and dark arts, right? It’s an investment - aside from your money, you’ll need to put a load of thinking in to it. That might not be comfortable for some.

Telephone CBT? Sign of the times. These services also use chatbots now ( to triage). Psychology is more than CBT, too.

The above isn’t meant to be barbed, but the thread was developing a little group think.

[Couchy]

Anyway, vaya con dios Couchy, buy her some flowers, say sorry, really mean it, try to explain what's going on in your head one last time, etc.

Couldn't be more the wrong answer in this circumstance i'm afraid.

It’s fine, the fact people are taking time to comment helps. The content is largely irrelevant. There are some good worlds amongst it all from everyone though.

[Taipan]

Anyway, vaya con dios Couchy, buy her some flowers, say sorry, really mean it, try to explain what's going on in your head one last time, etc.

Couldn't be more the wrong answer in this circumstance i'm afraid.

It’s fine, the fact people are taking time to comment helps. The content is largely irrelevant. There are some good worlds amongst it all from everyone though.

Marriage break ups are horrible and normally much worse for the men. I've seen it take its toll on a few friends, but Like Pony said, you will get through it and come out with a new perspective on things and no one can take being a Dad away from you.

Don't lose sight of yourself. Make time for yourself and fill that time with doing things you like to do and be around positive people that are good to spend time with. Dwelling on it seems to be where people get undone.

Its clear to see on here that you're well liked and have good friends. I wish you well mate.

[Potter]

Anyway, vaya con dios Couchy, buy her some flowers, say sorry, really mean it, try to explain what's going on in your head one last time, etc.

Couldn't be more the wrong answer in this circumstance i'm afraid.

It’s fine, the fact people are taking time to comment helps. The content is largely irrelevant. There are some good worlds amongst it all from everyone though.

Sorry mate, that's why I started by saying I don't know your circumstances, it was a shot in the dark, I nearly didn't type any of it, but then I thought maybe it might help.

[Cousin Jack]

So today the wife confirmed the marriage is over, me taking too long to get my illness sorted has taken its toll on her. Apparently I’m to leave but there’s no rush while we sort money and details out and I find a house. Still loves and cares for me as a friend which is fair enough and as all rooms are used here we’ll carry on our living/sleeping/eating arrangements.

Ive no idea about all the above it’s too much to take in tonight, counselling tomorrow so that’ll be fun. Dreading being in a house all alone waiting for the days I have my daughter. It’s exactly what I don’t want.

I'm sorry to hear that, but the good news is you are both still talking and acting in a civilized manner. far too many people start being stupid when a marriage goes tits-up, and start using kids, money, and everything else as weapons etc. Keep talking, even if it is just to decide how you are going to split stuff, don't EVER let it get all lawyers at dawn or the only winners will be the lawyers.

The other great thing about talking is that you might decide to give it a go again. I have seen several people at CA who started coming in for advice on divorce, got advised to talk through financial splits they could both live with, and ended up coming back and saying they didn't need us any more.

[Potter]

All the man up/vikings clinking beer jugs together aside- there is a big difference between counselling and psychology. Different horses for different courses.

Working through expectations ( against perceptions) is part of the process. Pain and trauma isn’t just switched off, either. Then there is the bit about life-long investment in building autonomy (yes, that sounds like an oxymoron).

‘Didn’t understand me’ ‘load of twaddle’ ‘card trick’ ( ) - I think veers dangerously close to stigmatising therapy. It’s all voodoo and dark arts, right? It’s an investment - aside from your money, you’ll need to put a load of thinking in to it. That might not be comfortable for some.

Telephone CBT? Sign of the times. These services also use chatbots now ( to triage). Psychology is more than CBT, too.

The above isn’t meant to be barbed, but the thread was developing a little group think.

I thought a bit of group think was the point of the thread.

If the services we have experience of didn't work for us, then maybe the services aren't right, rather than the people that need help being told they're at fault for not being the right type of patients.