revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Not a good day for BSB / MSV & their insurer's,I hope they can afford the claims that will follow...

Shakey better be careful,or there'll be no racing for him to provide the commentary.

Blimey, that opens a can of worms. I hit the tyre wall at Mallory, properly smashing myself up.

Every trackday or raceday you sign an indemnity form, which now seems worthless.

Skub wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 4:25 pm Shakey better be careful,or there'll be no racing for him to provide the commentary.

Silverstone and Assen and Knockhill.

Yorick wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 4:33 pm Every trackday or raceday you sign an indemnity form, which now seems worthless.

AIUI they were always pretty much worthless .

My understanding is that you can't sign away your duty of care to others, so you're still open for a neglect claim regardless of what any attendees sign.

https://direct2compensation.co.uk/faq/d ... f%20injury.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 4:53 pm

Yorick wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 4:33 pm Every trackday or raceday you sign an indemnity form, which now seems worthless.

AIUI they were always pretty much worthless .

My understanding is that you can't sign away your duty of care to others, so you're still open for a neglect claim regardless of what any attendees sign.

Had a well-known (then) journalist watch one of my courses as part of an article.

He said "I've watched so many training courses - I could do it easily. Just have a disclaimer for trainees to sign".

To which that day's trainee, something in the 'legal' business, said that it wouldn't stand up in court if there was a claim.

Ironically, perhaps, the journo was running track training courses for the magazine soon after.

In 2007 as an instructor I had a huge crash at Mallory.
I could have claimed but no bugger would ever have employed me again.

No regrets.

westers151 wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 7:16 pm Was it a track day or an official BSB test?

Might not make any difference.

If it was reasonably foreseeable that someone could hit it, and a better barrier could reduce injury, then the argument might be that it should have been installed.

westers151 wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 7:16 pm Was it a track day or an official BSB test?

Official test.

I think that was the basis of his case.

The barriers that were put up on the days of the BSB should have been there on an official testing day.

Scotsrich wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 10:44 pm I think that was the basis of his case.

The barriers that were put up on the days of the BSB should have been there on an official testing day.

I didn't know that. It puts an entirely different light on the matter.

Skub wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 10:18 am

Scotsrich wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 10:44 pm I think that was the basis of his case.

The barriers that were put up on the days of the BSB should have been there on an official testing day.

I didn't know that. It puts an entirely different light on the matter.

Since he was only doing 15ish mph on impact, how slow are these races?

Jests aside, is it reasonable for racers to expect more protection / track day riders less?

It's correct to say disclaimers are worthless - you can't sign away your duty of care. And there is a history of people suing for accidents they sustained on track. Peter Williams sued the JP Norton team when he crashed at Oulton after the seat came loose on his bike. I read a case where a team owner was sued because his rider clipped another guy who crashed, because the team rider hadn't been specifically told to take it easy.

In the end those of us who race or have raced should do it, in my view, in the knowledge that it's dangerous and we may be hurt. Whether at a BSB round, in practice or at a club race. What next, suing the organisers on the IoM for not lining the entire circuit with air fences? Insurance costs are already making racing horribly expensive. I have great sympathy for Shakey for his injury but IMHO it's very bad form to sue the circuit/organisers for what can never be ruled out as a potential consequence of the activity that he freely chose to undertake.

My question is...

did he ride the track without the safety barriers there before ? If so, was it safe to ride then ? if it wasn't, then why did he ride it?

The answer of course is yes he did, dozens of times, probably hundreds upon hundreds of laps... maybe thousands... But for some reason that was ok ?

Sheene sued Silverstone for £300k after his 1981 crash.
He proved that the marshal's flag was down as he came over the rise and had no warning about the crashed 125 lying on the track.

Probably worth remembering that Shakey was at work, not riding for the fun of it like trackdayers and club racers.

Yorick wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 2:39 pm Sheene sued Silverstone for £300k after hid 1981 crash.
He proved that the marshal's flag was down as he came over the rise and had no warning about the crashed 125 lying on the track.

Pedant alert
No wonder the marshall's flag was down in 1981,the accident happened in. 1982 & he hit Patrick Igoa's 250.
I also got my facts wrong,I thought it was Rugia's 250,fortunatley the internet put me right

Bustaspoke wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 2:59 pm

Yorick wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 2:39 pm Sheene sued Silverstone for £300k after hid 1981 crash.
He proved that the marshal's flag was down as he came over the rise and had no warning about the crashed 125 lying on the track.

Pedant alert
No wonder the marshall's flag was down in 1981,the accident happened in. 1982 & he hit Patrick Igoa's 250.
I also got my facts wrong,I thought it was Rugia's 250,fortunatley the internet put me right

Oops. I was sure it was a 125 as there were complaints that it shouldn't have been out with the 500s.

I think a 125 seized,Igoa hit it & Sheene ploughed into the stricken 250,carnage

Bustaspoke wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:11 pm I think a 125 seized,Igoa hit it & Sheene ploughed into the stricken 250,carnage

Was my first season racing and to us brats he had almost god-like status.