The Bibby Stockholm!

[Hoonercat]

The Conservatives sacked a load of the staff who did the processing and now the backlog is absolutely huge. Thats the Conservatives fault, process them and a vast majority could now be in work and contributing to the economy instead of being held in a situation where turning to crime is their only way to make money.

Is it really the case that the Conservatives have culled the number of staff?
That doesn't seem to tally with the 62% increase in caseworkers from 2011/12 to 2021/22

Despite a 62% increase in caseworkers from 2011/12 to 2021/22, decision making rates have decreased by the same amount in this period. And in December 2022, there were 1,237 caseworkers who made an average of four asylum decisions per month per staff member, compared to 380 caseworkers with a productivity rate of 13.7 decisions in 2011/12.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... um-backlog

The UK grants asylum to c.75% of claimants compared to 34% in the EU. Is it just we have a much better class of asylum seeker or is the UK an easier place to get a positive decision?...eventually.

According to a govt spokesperson (2021) the immigration services prioritise cases with a high chance of success as a way of reducing costs. On the face of it, it doesn't seem likea bad idea, but it does mean that those who have no real chance of success are left waiting while the taxpayer picks up the bill. France do the complete opposite; they fastrack cases which they think are likely to fail, in order to get them out of the country where they won't be a burden on the taxpayer. And France are much quicker at processing claims; 137,015 decisions made in 2021 compared to 14,500 in the UK.
France grant rate for Albanians (2021) was 9%, the UK's was 46%. In France, their case would have been heard and rejected as a priority. In the UK, Albanians make up the largest section of applicants in the asylum backlog.
If I had a bogus claim, I know which country I'd be heading to, given the above

And then there's this little gem from the Home Office asylum guidance

A claimant’s testimony may include lies or exaggerations for a variety of reasons, not all of which need reflect adversely on other areas.. Falsehoods… do not mean that everything the claimant has said must be dismissed as unreliable.

[Ant]

I've just been reading the social media page of the Guardian, an article about banning private jets for the rich.

As you can imagine, the level of bitterness, envy and 'I can't have it, so I don't want anyone else to have it' is right up there with some of the comments here.

[DefTrap]

The rich tend to be early adopters though, cos they can afford it. They'll be queuing up to buy expensive pollution-free planes while Ant is still glued to the Guardian and hypocritically getting on his Ryanair.

[Ant]

Ryanair? Get away!

I shall be flying magic carpet only.

[porter_jamie]

There have been many studies which show success correlates to iq. Income, education, health etc. Unfortunately if you dig into it a bit all sort of other things also correlate with iq and then the facts become uncomfortable reading. Look at iq by country and you can see a strong correlation to how successful that country is or more to the point how unsuccessful a country is.
Then you might look at iq per race in a diverse country such as the us and then realise why the Jewish and Asian communities tend to do very well with education and careers.
You get the iq you were born with and I am.not aware of any studies that show it can be increased, even with massive intervention.
You can make the most of what you have though.

[David]

I wonder how long it will be before one of the hard done by migrants will set fire to the thing.

[Count Steer]

You get the iq you were born with and I am.not aware of any studies that show it can be increased, even with massive intervention.

Studies on adopted children with low IQ ie ave. 77 show that IQ increases significantly when the children are placed in families with higher IQ. Hereditability of IQ is similar to height at 0.80 and, unsurprisingly both are affected by environment ie stuff like diet. Even putting such kids with families that have a larger vocabulary increases measured IQ. So, it can be increased and environment plays a part but it's possibly not the best metric for application across all populations. It's very good at measuring specific capabilities but focuses on quite a narrow set.

[porter_jamie]

You get the iq you were born with and I am.not aware of any studies that show it can be increased, even with massive intervention.

Studies on adopted children with low IQ ie ave. 77 show that IQ increases significantly when the children are placed in families with higher IQ. Hereditability of IQ is similar to height at 0.80 and, unsurprisingly both are affected by environment ie stuff like diet. Even putting such kids with families that have a larger vocabulary increases measured IQ. So, it can be increased and environment plays a part but it's possibly not the best metric for application across all populations. It's very good at measuring specific capabilities but focuses on quite a narrow set.

interersting but isnt that more likely to be making the most of what you have? ie if the kid has been adopted because the mother was a junkie or whatever you could probably make an assumption that the education of her kid wasnt the highest priority for her and the home life of the kid would obviously be less than ideal. middle class kids get tutoring to pass the 11plus - doesnt mean they are any more intelligent than the working class kids down the road necessarily, just that they have the specific skills and knowledge to pass the test. yes i agree the iq test wont really work out of context which is maybe why some countries the scores are lower. however the basic idea how successful you are is correlated to how clever you are stands. to do well you still have to work hard though

[David]

And better food makes better brains.

[Count Steer]

I have a feeling our early education system is, at heart, training in IQ tests. The 11 plus felt very much like one (working class kid here that passed it ). It was only after that that the curriculum expanded significantly. It stands to reason that countries that base their early learning (I haven't seen SAT test but assume they're similar) do well at IQ tests and then do well (if they work hard enough) further down the line if it gives them access to good further education.

I suppose heredity might define the upper limit of IQ capability (within that 0.8 factor) but don't have anything to back that up.

Interesting topic, but a bit of a minefield.

[mangocrazy]

Yes, I'm sure it works both ways and there are wildly incorrect assumptions on both sides of the wealth divide. The big difference is that the really poor are effectively trapped in their situation whereas the rich (and especially the super-rich) have much more control of their present and future.

It has a lot more to do with IQ than actual money.

The rich people I know are mostly self-made, they could probably start from scratch and make it all again at any point, so they are not trapped in any type of circumstances, but not because they're rich, it's because they're clever.

I also know a few people that have inherited stuff, most people would think that they're rich but they're actually always borderline broke, they don't have many choices because they're usually not that bright - in fact if you want to be staggered by stupid people and inheritance then go onto youtube and have a look at the "F**king Fulfords", they're a family of actual retards (I mean this in the clinical sense) who inherited an estate but they're perpetually skint and clearly all lacking in IQ.

IME people being "trapped" in their situation is usually just down to IQ rather than what's in their pocket at any given time, that's how you get lottery winners that end up skint again. In essence IQ and the money in your pocket are very closely related, people usually have just about as much money as their IQ will allow them to get and (more importantly) hold onto.

So what you're basically saying (although not specifically articulating) is that poor people are poor because they're thick and rich people are rich because they're smart, yeah?

[porter_jamie]

i have worked with a few very bright people and you can see them getting to the right conclusion so much faster than everyone else in the room. that and the ability to amass a huge amount of of useful info and recall it at will. its frustrating, i know loads of information about all sorts of not very useful information. and most of the time it takes me forever to remember it.

[Count Steer]

i have worked with a few very bright people and you can see them getting to the right conclusion so much faster than everyone else in the room. that and the ability to amass a huge amount of of useful info and recall it at will. its frustrating, i know loads of information about all sorts of not very useful information. and most of the time it takes me forever to remember it.

I've also noticed that they often ask more questions and do the 'what ifs' thing more than some who reach conclusions very quickly too though.

[porter_jamie]

i got one who when i ask a question, will say, so why do you think that might be then? and i said well, maybe this that and the other. and then he nudges me in the right direction and i go, oh its got to be this hasnt it - well why do you think that then - and i say what i think and with a bit more pointing in the right direction it feels like ive worked it out for myself. very good stuff.

[Greenman]

Yes, I'm sure it works both ways and there are wildly incorrect assumptions on both sides of the wealth divide. The big difference is that the really poor are effectively trapped in their situation whereas the rich (and especially the super-rich) have much more control of their present and future.

It has a lot more to do with IQ than actual money.

The rich people I know are mostly self-made, they could probably start from scratch and make it all again at any point, so they are not trapped in any type of circumstances, but not because they're rich, it's because they're clever.

I also know a few people that have inherited stuff, most people would think that they're rich but they're actually always borderline broke, they don't have many choices because they're usually not that bright - in fact if you want to be staggered by stupid people and inheritance then go onto youtube and have a look at the "F**king Fulfords", they're a family of actual retards (I mean this in the clinical sense) who inherited an estate but they're perpetually skint and clearly all lacking in IQ.

IME people being "trapped" in their situation is usually just down to IQ rather than what's in their pocket at any given time, that's how you get lottery winners that end up skint again. In essence IQ and the money in your pocket are very closely related, people usually have just about as much money as their IQ will allow them to get and (more importantly) hold onto.

The world is geared up for people with academic minds. The whole education system is setup for those that are academically bright to succeed.

Coming from a background of money means you have access to the levels of education someone from a working background cannot afford, so those people from money gain a higher IQ though better education and mingle with the 'boys' that have links to others in the know, this is why the jobs that require good academic skills/accredidation are the most well paid.

If you were not offered any education at all when you were young would you be as intelligent as you are now? No is the answer btw.

I have a similar conversation with my racist SA mate. He cannot understand why a majority of black people turned to crime through the apartheid, he can't seem to understand that if you refuse a group of people education then they will have no choice but to find other ways of feeding themselves and their families and will probably turn to crime! - It's pretty simple IMO. This also probably comes back to your point of the rich not knowing how poor poor people are and visa versa, it becomes a fight between the classes and once it gets to that point it's hard to turn back, the hatred between the two factions is so embedded over so many years it will take generations to get people around to a different way of thinking.

Also money makes money. If you have money to invest it isn't exactly rocket science to make more money from it via investments etc, you don't really need any special intelligence to invest correctly imo. I think a lot of the people you know that have 'made it themselves' probably had some sort of inheritance to give them a starting point.

Those that literally make something from nothing (and of course there are some) have got lucky, or have been in the right place at the right time, i refuse to think that they are some super intelligent breed that can make money from nothing as if they are then why isn't everyone else doing the same, there are quite a few intelligent broke people in this would!

I agree that there are those who just blindly refuse to learn and will fuck eveything up no matter what education they have had or what position they find themselves in as a youngster, most of these are currently running our country!

[JamJar]

They have found Legionella on the barge so are now having to move everyone off lol.

[Greenman]

They have found Legionella on the barge so are now having to move everyone off lol.

Unbelievable, no hang on, it isn't at all really is it!

[porter_jamie]

Yes, I'm sure it works both ways and there are wildly incorrect assumptions on both sides of the wealth divide. The big difference is that the really poor are effectively trapped in their situation whereas the rich (and especially the super-rich) have much more control of their present and future.

Those that literally make something from nothing (and of course there are some) have got lucky, or have been in the right place at the right time, i refuse to think that they are some super intelligent breed that can make money from nothing as if they are then why isn't everyone else doing the same, there are quite a few intelligent broke people in this would!

I agree that there are those who just blindly refuse to learn and will fuck eveything up no matter what education they have had or what position they find themselves in as a youngster, most of these are currently running our country!

im not so sure, i think there are people that if they lost it all they wouldnt be skint for long as they would just make it all again. its not just iq, its the instincts to make a deal and so on.

your second paragraph, cant argue with that

[JackyJoll]

Yebbut what about poets?

[DefTrap]

So - there's nothing special about rich people - they were just born that way?
High IQ and no empathy?