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That's about what I'm doing on my EMTB, so he doesn't NEED one, OTOH I find an EMTB to be a lot more fun than am MTB, so he might WANT one.weeksy wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:20 pm Docca did 33km today at 16.5kmh average with 152m elevation...
I'm still struggling to see the Ebike thing here
I'll convert him don't you worryJulian_Boolean wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:00 pmThat's about what I'm doing on my EMTB, so he doesn't NEED one, OTOH I find an EMTB to be a lot more fun than am MTB, so he might WANT one.weeksy wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:20 pm Docca did 33km today at 16.5kmh average with 152m elevation...
I'm still struggling to see the Ebike thing here
I must say I couldn't believe the difference on how easily my son's BTWIN Hybrid rolls compared to the MTB. single crank , 9 speed cassette, cable disc brakes. - £280. You can't go wrong:Slenver wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:05 am I think in some ways I'm in a similar situation to Docca. Recently getting into cycling to try and get a bit fitter, bought a MTB and now going further than it's ideal for and looking for the next step.
My thinking it more in line with Weeksy's though... I have no interest in the ebike route purely because I want to get fit and don't want the assistance, though I'm sure they're brilliant things and great fun. In fact, I rode an early one years ago and it was hilarious.
I've been looking recently (online) at all kinds of stuff and am thinking either a hybrid or gravel bike. Both can do long road trips and/or off-road, depending to a degree on tyre choice, and would open up longer trips than the current MTB.
One thing I have noticed though is that there are all but no bikes at all for sale currently. The world has bought all the bikes. I even emailed one manufacturer (Merida) asking where all the stock was, and they replied saying it was all gone and they'd have nothing until the new models come out in September. Seems to be a trend. Canyon seem to work differently as they send direct from the factory but obviously you can't try one in the shops.
Things like the headset/fork setup, fork diameter, axle types etc... They're designed to be a bit less robust, so looks like a 28/30mm fork leg with 1 1/8th steerer and QR lower, which you wouldn't really use in an offroad context nowdays... you could, but, well, it's not going to stand up to abuse as well as a MTB.Julian_Boolean wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:47 am Apart from wheels and tyres, what's the difference between that and a hardtail MTB?
Also gearing. MTBs are geared very low. I can just about keep up with the pedals on mine down a hill at 25mph maybe (possibly less), but then it's freewheeling. Hybrids and road-based bikes will have the same cadence in the highest gears at somewhere between 35 and 40mph.weeksy wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:57 amThings like the headset/fork setup, fork diameter, axle types etc... They're designed to be a bit less robust, so looks like a 28/30mm fork leg with 1 1/8th steerer and QR lower, which you wouldn't really use in an offroad context nowdays... you could, but, well, it's not going to stand up to abuse as well as a MTB.Julian_Boolean wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:47 am Apart from wheels and tyres, what's the difference between that and a hardtail MTB?
Forgive me, but anyone who says this about ebikes doesn't understand how they work.Slenver wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:05 am I have no interest in the ebike route purely because I want to get fit....
Yeah, I do get that and I have ridden one. I'm not knocking either the concept of them of the fact that they have benefits, even if trying to get fit. But it's about context... obvs for mountain biking they come into their own more in the way you describe. For me, I'm just riding on the road so the benefit would just be that I'd go further in the same time or go the same distance with less effort. Neither is of a great interest to me, especially for thousands of pounds! Ultimately if the *only* reason for riding is to get some exercise then you don't need electrical assistance. If it enables you to do things you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, or go places you wouldn't be able to reach, or even just to have more fun doing it, all *while* getting fitter then it's all good.millemille wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:38 pmForgive me, but anyone who says this about ebikes doesn't understand how they work.Slenver wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:05 am I have no interest in the ebike route purely because I want to get fit....
Ebikes, using frame mounted drive train motors, are force multipliers. If you put no effort in you'll get nothing out of the motor. If you work as hard as you would do on a conventional bike you will go faster than you would on a conventional bike because the motor is multiplying that effort.
At the top of a steep hill my heart rate is still sky high and I'm blowing out of my arse, but rather than having spent 15 minutes slowly grinding up the hill I've spent 6 minutes flying - comparatively - up it.
You go out an ebike for the same length of time as you would on a conventional bike and put the same amount of effort in and you'll burn the same amount of calories but you'll have gone twice as far.....
Ah, so like [mention]weeksy[/mention] you're a Catholic cyclist?Slenver wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:54 pmYeah, I do get that and I have ridden one. I'm not knocking either the concept of them of the fact that they have benefits, even if trying to get fit. But it's about context... obvs for mountain biking they come into their own more in the way you describe. For me, I'm just riding on the road so the benefit would just be that I'd go further in the same time or go the same distance with less effort. Neither is of a great interest to me, especially for thousands of pounds! Ultimately if the *only* reason for riding is to get some exercise then you don't need electrical assistance. If it enables you to do things you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, or go places you wouldn't be able to reach, or even just to have more fun doing it, all *while* getting fitter then it's all good.millemille wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:38 pmForgive me, but anyone who says this about ebikes doesn't understand how they work.Slenver wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:05 am I have no interest in the ebike route purely because I want to get fit....
Ebikes, using frame mounted drive train motors, are force multipliers. If you put no effort in you'll get nothing out of the motor. If you work as hard as you would do on a conventional bike you will go faster than you would on a conventional bike because the motor is multiplying that effort.
At the top of a steep hill my heart rate is still sky high and I'm blowing out of my arse, but rather than having spent 15 minutes slowly grinding up the hill I've spent 6 minutes flying - comparatively - up it.
You go out an ebike for the same length of time as you would on a conventional bike and put the same amount of effort in and you'll burn the same amount of calories but you'll have gone twice as far.....
I haven't.Mr Moofo wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:00 pm I would also rather that reliability went up ( everyone I know here has had to send their back to the shop - so local dealer seems to be key).
LOL you've seen me MTB, i get plenty of pleasuremillemille wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:02 pmAh, so like @weeksy you're a Catholic cyclist?Slenver wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:54 pmYeah, I do get that and I have ridden one. I'm not knocking either the concept of them of the fact that they have benefits, even if trying to get fit. But it's about context... obvs for mountain biking they come into their own more in the way you describe. For me, I'm just riding on the road so the benefit would just be that I'd go further in the same time or go the same distance with less effort. Neither is of a great interest to me, especially for thousands of pounds! Ultimately if the *only* reason for riding is to get some exercise then you don't need electrical assistance. If it enables you to do things you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, or go places you wouldn't be able to reach, or even just to have more fun doing it, all *while* getting fitter then it's all good.millemille wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:38 pm
Forgive me, but anyone who says this about ebikes doesn't understand how they work.
Ebikes, using frame mounted drive train motors, are force multipliers. If you put no effort in you'll get nothing out of the motor. If you work as hard as you would do on a conventional bike you will go faster than you would on a conventional bike because the motor is multiplying that effort.
At the top of a steep hill my heart rate is still sky high and I'm blowing out of my arse, but rather than having spent 15 minutes slowly grinding up the hill I've spent 6 minutes flying - comparatively - up it.
You go out an ebike for the same length of time as you would on a conventional bike and put the same amount of effort in and you'll burn the same amount of calories but you'll have gone twice as far.....
Not for enjoyment, but as a penance. It's your hair shirt if you will.
Maybe there's a business opportunity for a new range of bikes here, Sisyphus cycles? We could make them twice as heavy as they need to be, with super high resistance bearings or maybe even a crank driven generator that dumps all of its power into a rheo grid just to ensure that there's no enjoyment whatsoever to be gained from cycling....
Good to know. Giant's seem to destruct quite quickly - no idea what motor ....millemille wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:03 pmI haven't.Mr Moofo wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:00 pm I would also rather that reliability went up ( everyone I know here has had to send their back to the shop - so local dealer seems to be key).
Don't think @Couchy has had to with either of his Bosch motored bikes?
That works if you have the ability to ride that fast and the trails to go that fast, a lot of the trails in our end of the country are tight forestry ones.millemille wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:38 pmForgive me, but anyone who says this about ebikes doesn't understand how they work.Slenver wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:05 am I have no interest in the ebike route purely because I want to get fit....
Ebikes, using frame mounted drive train motors, are force multipliers. If you put no effort in you'll get nothing out of the motor. If you work as hard as you would do on a conventional bike you will go faster than you would on a conventional bike because the motor is multiplying that effort.
At the top of a steep hill my heart rate is still sky high and I'm blowing out of my arse, but rather than having spent 15 minutes slowly grinding up the hill I've spent 6 minutes flying - comparatively - up it.
You go out an ebike for the same length of time as you would on a conventional bike and put the same amount of effort in and you'll burn the same amount of calories but you'll have gone twice as far.....
Yep! The only reason I go is to try and get fitter. Once I'm out I quite enjoy it, but it's penance first, enjoyment latermillemille wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:02 pm
Ah, so like @weeksy you're a Catholic cyclist?
Not for enjoyment, but as a penance. It's your hair shirt if you will.
Maybe there's a business opportunity for a new range of bikes here, Sisyphus cycles? We could make them twice as heavy as they need to be, with super high resistance bearings or maybe even a crank driven generator that dumps all of its power into a rheo grid just to ensure that there's no enjoyment whatsoever to be gained from cycling....
I find going slower on an eMTB to be easier than on a conventional bike because I don't care about loosing all the energy I've gained, so I'm quite happy to crawl along waiting for walkers to find somewhere they feel safe for me to pass, or going slowly on narrow downhills where I can't see who's round the corner.crust wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:08 pm That works if you have the ability to ride that fast and the trails to go that fast, a lot of the trails in our end of the country are tight forestry ones.
Plain, the Amish like plain. And simple. Plain and simple.Julian_Boolean wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:14 pm
I find riding an eMTB to feel more like riding a trials motorcycle than riding an Amish bike (I love the "Amish bike" description and I'm going to use it to wind my mate up)
I agree tbh. I do more climbing than that on my road bike without too many issues and if that was my typical ride I wouldn't look for assistance.weeksy wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:20 pm Docca did 33km today at 16.5kmh average with 152m elevation...
I'm still struggling to see the Ebike thing here
