eMTB recommendations

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Docca did 33km today at 16.5kmh average with 152m elevation...

I'm still struggling to see the Ebike thing here

That's about what I'm doing on my EMTB, so he doesn't NEED one, OTOH I find an EMTB to be a lot more fun than am MTB, so he might WANT one.

[weeksy]

Docca did 33km today at 16.5kmh average with 152m elevation...

I'm still struggling to see the Ebike thing here

That's about what I'm doing on my EMTB, so he doesn't NEED one, OTOH I find an EMTB to be a lot more fun than am MTB, so he might WANT one.

I'll convert him don't you worry

[Slenver]

I think in some ways I'm in a similar situation to Docca. Recently getting into cycling to try and get a bit fitter, bought a MTB and now going further than it's ideal for and looking for the next step.

My thinking it more in line with Weeksy's though... I have no interest in the ebike route purely because I want to get fit and don't want the assistance, though I'm sure they're brilliant things and great fun. In fact, I rode an early one years ago and it was hilarious.

I've been looking recently (online) at all kinds of stuff and am thinking either a hybrid or gravel bike. Both can do long road trips and/or off-road, depending to a degree on tyre choice, and would open up longer trips than the current MTB.

One thing I have noticed though is that there are all but no bikes at all for sale currently. The world has bought all the bikes. I even emailed one manufacturer (Merida) asking where all the stock was, and they replied saying it was all gone and they'd have nothing until the new models come out in September. Seems to be a trend. Canyon seem to work differently as they send direct from the factory but obviously you can't try one in the shops.

[G.P]

I think in some ways I'm in a similar situation to Docca. Recently getting into cycling to try and get a bit fitter, bought a MTB and now going further than it's ideal for and looking for the next step.

My thinking it more in line with Weeksy's though... I have no interest in the ebike route purely because I want to get fit and don't want the assistance, though I'm sure they're brilliant things and great fun. In fact, I rode an early one years ago and it was hilarious.

I've been looking recently (online) at all kinds of stuff and am thinking either a hybrid or gravel bike. Both can do long road trips and/or off-road, depending to a degree on tyre choice, and would open up longer trips than the current MTB.

One thing I have noticed though is that there are all but no bikes at all for sale currently. The world has bought all the bikes. I even emailed one manufacturer (Merida) asking where all the stock was, and they replied saying it was all gone and they'd have nothing until the new models come out in September. Seems to be a trend. Canyon seem to work differently as they send direct from the factory but obviously you can't try one in the shops.

I must say I couldn't believe the difference on how easily my son's BTWIN Hybrid rolls compared to the MTB. single crank , 9 speed cassette, cable disc brakes. - £280. You can't go wrong:

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/500-hybrid- ... 05210.html

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Apart from wheels and tyres, what's the difference between that and a hardtail MTB?

[weeksy]

Apart from wheels and tyres, what's the difference between that and a hardtail MTB?

Things like the headset/fork setup, fork diameter, axle types etc... They're designed to be a bit less robust, so looks like a 28/30mm fork leg with 1 1/8th steerer and QR lower, which you wouldn't really use in an offroad context nowdays... you could, but, well, it's not going to stand up to abuse as well as a MTB.

[Slenver]

Apart from wheels and tyres, what's the difference between that and a hardtail MTB?

Things like the headset/fork setup, fork diameter, axle types etc... They're designed to be a bit less robust, so looks like a 28/30mm fork leg with 1 1/8th steerer and QR lower, which you wouldn't really use in an offroad context nowdays... you could, but, well, it's not going to stand up to abuse as well as a MTB.

Also gearing. MTBs are geared very low. I can just about keep up with the pedals on mine down a hill at 25mph maybe (possibly less), but then it's freewheeling. Hybrids and road-based bikes will have the same cadence in the highest gears at somewhere between 35 and 40mph.

There are going to be geometry differences as Weeksy has mentioned, but for use on road, the main differences are going to be gearing, fat tyres, front shock and overall weight. My MTB is 13.5kg, a decent hybrid would be 10-11, a light one 9-10.

I do a 25-mile road route on my MTB and it's actually fine. But slow because of weight, gearing, tyres etc. I'd go further faster on something more road-biased.

[millemille]

I have no interest in the ebike route purely because I want to get fit....

Forgive me, but anyone who says this about ebikes doesn't understand how they work.

Ebikes, using frame mounted drive train motors, are force multipliers. If you put no effort in you'll get nothing out of the motor. If you work as hard as you would do on a conventional bike you will go faster than you would on a conventional bike because the motor is multiplying that effort.

At the top of a steep hill my heart rate is still sky high and I'm blowing out of my arse, but rather than having spent 15 minutes slowly grinding up the hill I've spent 6 minutes flying - comparatively - up it.

You go out an ebike for the same length of time as you would on a conventional bike and put the same amount of effort in and you'll burn the same amount of calories but you'll have gone twice as far.....

[Slenver]

I have no interest in the ebike route purely because I want to get fit....

Forgive me, but anyone who says this about ebikes doesn't understand how they work.

Ebikes, using frame mounted drive train motors, are force multipliers. If you put no effort in you'll get nothing out of the motor. If you work as hard as you would do on a conventional bike you will go faster than you would on a conventional bike because the motor is multiplying that effort.

At the top of a steep hill my heart rate is still sky high and I'm blowing out of my arse, but rather than having spent 15 minutes slowly grinding up the hill I've spent 6 minutes flying - comparatively - up it.

You go out an ebike for the same length of time as you would on a conventional bike and put the same amount of effort in and you'll burn the same amount of calories but you'll have gone twice as far.....

Yeah, I do get that and I have ridden one. I'm not knocking either the concept of them of the fact that they have benefits, even if trying to get fit. But it's about context... obvs for mountain biking they come into their own more in the way you describe. For me, I'm just riding on the road so the benefit would just be that I'd go further in the same time or go the same distance with less effort. Neither is of a great interest to me, especially for thousands of pounds! Ultimately if the *only* reason for riding is to get some exercise then you don't need electrical assistance. If it enables you to do things you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, or go places you wouldn't be able to reach, or even just to have more fun doing it, all *while* getting fitter then it's all good.

[Mr Moofo]

E-bikes re changing very quickly at the moment - as is bike geometers / ideas / wheels sizes/ fork specs/ e-bike batteries etc. As I get older, I could be tempted but I would like to seethe development slow down a bit. I would also rather that reliability went up ( everyone I know here has had to send their back to the shop - so local dealer seems to be key).

But I am in the Slenver / Weeksy camp - I cycle to keep fit . Having just been on the Downs and completed a 30k loop, I realise I like the climbing and pushing myself. It's doing me good - and making big changes to my life. I can fully see the point of an e-Bike. None of the people who bought e-bike ride their "Amish" ones any more. Go figure ...

[millemille]

I have no interest in the ebike route purely because I want to get fit....

Forgive me, but anyone who says this about ebikes doesn't understand how they work.

Ebikes, using frame mounted drive train motors, are force multipliers. If you put no effort in you'll get nothing out of the motor. If you work as hard as you would do on a conventional bike you will go faster than you would on a conventional bike because the motor is multiplying that effort.

At the top of a steep hill my heart rate is still sky high and I'm blowing out of my arse, but rather than having spent 15 minutes slowly grinding up the hill I've spent 6 minutes flying - comparatively - up it.

You go out an ebike for the same length of time as you would on a conventional bike and put the same amount of effort in and you'll burn the same amount of calories but you'll have gone twice as far.....

Yeah, I do get that and I have ridden one. I'm not knocking either the concept of them of the fact that they have benefits, even if trying to get fit. But it's about context... obvs for mountain biking they come into their own more in the way you describe. For me, I'm just riding on the road so the benefit would just be that I'd go further in the same time or go the same distance with less effort. Neither is of a great interest to me, especially for thousands of pounds! Ultimately if the *only* reason for riding is to get some exercise then you don't need electrical assistance. If it enables you to do things you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, or go places you wouldn't be able to reach, or even just to have more fun doing it, all *while* getting fitter then it's all good.

Ah, so like [mention]weeksy[/mention] you're a Catholic cyclist?

Not for enjoyment, but as a penance. It's your hair shirt if you will.

Maybe there's a business opportunity for a new range of bikes here, Sisyphus cycles? We could make them twice as heavy as they need to be, with super high resistance bearings or maybe even a crank driven generator that dumps all of its power into a rheo grid just to ensure that there's no enjoyment whatsoever to be gained from cycling....

[millemille]

I would also rather that reliability went up ( everyone I know here has had to send their back to the shop - so local dealer seems to be key).

I haven't.

Don't think [mention]Couchy[/mention] has had to with either of his Bosch motored bikes?

[weeksy]

Forgive me, but anyone who says this about ebikes doesn't understand how they work.

Ebikes, using frame mounted drive train motors, are force multipliers. If you put no effort in you'll get nothing out of the motor. If you work as hard as you would do on a conventional bike you will go faster than you would on a conventional bike because the motor is multiplying that effort.

At the top of a steep hill my heart rate is still sky high and I'm blowing out of my arse, but rather than having spent 15 minutes slowly grinding up the hill I've spent 6 minutes flying - comparatively - up it.

You go out an ebike for the same length of time as you would on a conventional bike and put the same amount of effort in and you'll burn the same amount of calories but you'll have gone twice as far.....

Yeah, I do get that and I have ridden one. I'm not knocking either the concept of them of the fact that they have benefits, even if trying to get fit. But it's about context... obvs for mountain biking they come into their own more in the way you describe. For me, I'm just riding on the road so the benefit would just be that I'd go further in the same time or go the same distance with less effort. Neither is of a great interest to me, especially for thousands of pounds! Ultimately if the *only* reason for riding is to get some exercise then you don't need electrical assistance. If it enables you to do things you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, or go places you wouldn't be able to reach, or even just to have more fun doing it, all *while* getting fitter then it's all good.

Ah, so like @weeksy you're a Catholic cyclist?

Not for enjoyment, but as a penance. It's your hair shirt if you will.

Maybe there's a business opportunity for a new range of bikes here, Sisyphus cycles? We could make them twice as heavy as they need to be, with super high resistance bearings or maybe even a crank driven generator that dumps all of its power into a rheo grid just to ensure that there's no enjoyment whatsoever to be gained from cycling....

LOL you've seen me MTB, i get plenty of pleasure

[Mr Moofo]

I would also rather that reliability went up ( everyone I know here has had to send their back to the shop - so local dealer seems to be key).

I haven't.

Don't think @Couchy has had to with either of his Bosch motored bikes?

Good to know. Giant's seem to destruct quite quickly - no idea what motor ....

[crust]

I have no interest in the ebike route purely because I want to get fit....

Forgive me, but anyone who says this about ebikes doesn't understand how they work.

Ebikes, using frame mounted drive train motors, are force multipliers. If you put no effort in you'll get nothing out of the motor. If you work as hard as you would do on a conventional bike you will go faster than you would on a conventional bike because the motor is multiplying that effort.

At the top of a steep hill my heart rate is still sky high and I'm blowing out of my arse, but rather than having spent 15 minutes slowly grinding up the hill I've spent 6 minutes flying - comparatively - up it.

You go out an ebike for the same length of time as you would on a conventional bike and put the same amount of effort in and you'll burn the same amount of calories but you'll have gone twice as far.....

That works if you have the ability to ride that fast and the trails to go that fast, a lot of the trails in our end of the country are tight forestry ones.

We're going to Swinley on Sat, there are certainly places you could ride faster than you would on an analogue bike but at the risk of face planting a tree at speed.
Where the terrain and/or ability limit speed then the ebike rider will burn less calories.
If Docca's going out with his kids then unless they're all on ebikes and all going faster than an analogue bike then they won't be burning the same calories.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

My eMTB has been totally reliable for the 3 weeks / 150 miles I've had it.

And I enjoy accelerating up hills on a bicycle, for me, it's a very new experience

[Slenver]

Ah, so like @weeksy you're a Catholic cyclist?

Not for enjoyment, but as a penance. It's your hair shirt if you will.

Maybe there's a business opportunity for a new range of bikes here, Sisyphus cycles? We could make them twice as heavy as they need to be, with super high resistance bearings or maybe even a crank driven generator that dumps all of its power into a rheo grid just to ensure that there's no enjoyment whatsoever to be gained from cycling....

Yep! The only reason I go is to try and get fitter. Once I'm out I quite enjoy it, but it's penance first, enjoyment later

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

That works if you have the ability to ride that fast and the trails to go that fast, a lot of the trails in our end of the country are tight forestry ones.

I find going slower on an eMTB to be easier than on a conventional bike because I don't care about loosing all the energy I've gained, so I'm quite happy to crawl along waiting for walkers to find somewhere they feel safe for me to pass, or going slowly on narrow downhills where I can't see who's round the corner.
I find riding an eMTB to feel more like riding a trials motorcycle than riding an Amish bike (I love the "Amish bike" description and I'm going to use it to wind my mate up)

[millemille]

I find riding an eMTB to feel more like riding a trials motorcycle than riding an Amish bike (I love the "Amish bike" description and I'm going to use it to wind my mate up)

Plain, the Amish like plain. And simple. Plain and simple.

What goes clip......clop.......clip.......clop.....BANG! clipettyclopclippetyclop?

An Amish drive by shooting.

[Taff]

Docca did 33km today at 16.5kmh average with 152m elevation...

I'm still struggling to see the Ebike thing here

I agree tbh. I do more climbing than that on my road bike without too many issues and if that was my typical ride I wouldn't look for assistance.

contrast that to the ride I did last night on my eMTB of 20km and 640m of climbing, there's no way that I would have done that much climbing without the assistance. one of the DH runs was 600m long trail with 100m decent, followed by a km of climbing back to the top, this is where the eMTB wins in the fun factor. I'm out with limited time to enjoy myself so why would I want to spend 90% of that time slogging (or worse pushing) my way back up to the top.

just as a sidenote, furlough has done the natural / unofficial trails the world of good in the FoD, some have even grown extra limbs