Niken

[Taipan]

The Niken doesnt suffer the balance issue and makes the mountain stages a piece of piss.

You do understand that there's no difference between a Niken and conventional motorbike in terms of balance and keeping it upright at slow speed?

How's that? I assumed it could sit upright on its own? Therefore do 1mph or 10mph without any issues?

We don't 'understand' anything about them as we've not ridden one, so, educate us

This is the tricity but you can see how freely the suspension pivots and why it would fall over. The tricity and I think Piaggoios can be "locked off" to stop it falling when parked.

[Count Steer]

Ah. It all starts to make sense. That's rather clever. Complicated, but clever!

[Demannu]

Y'know theres a turbo'd one in Oz.
I blanche at paying for 2 tyres, 3, ooooh my wallet!

[Skub]

[The Spin Doctor]

They may 'only' lean over to 45 degrees but that's more than most riders will achieve and they get a real shift-on. I chased one round NZ when I was out there in 2019 for Shiny Side Up, I was on a Tracer 900 and being two-up I got a footpeg down several times trying to keep up. I was supposed to have a Niken myself but they couldn't get a luggage kit in time for our four week 3500 mile journey - there was only the one in the country, and Dave - as the boss man - pinched it!

After three weeks of riding it, Dave wasn't convinced that it did anything different from a normal bike until he had to ride back from Auckland to his daughter's birthday party in Christchurch on Saturday afternoon / evening, then back again on Sunday morning. It rained most of the way, the roads were in a dreadful state at the end of the summer and it's twisty two-lane virtually the entire way. He said the reassurance from the front end on dark wet roads where he couldn't see the polished tar or the loose chipping was absolutely awe-inspiring. He was sold on it after that.

Unfortunately I can't tell you my impressions because despite a promise to swap bikes, I couldn't prise him out of the saddle after that.

I believe they have been measured at having 60% more grip than a conventional two-wheeler. I'll see if I can find the article when I get a minute.

[The Spin Doctor]

Grip test for the Niken

https://www.webbikeworld.com/test-yamah ... -traction/

Yamaha actually claim 80% more trip.

When the Piaggio MP3 came out, a friend of mine who's been working as a tour guide for Globebusters got to test that three wheeler. They were invited to take their test machines off-road and she said it was "uncrashable".

[Dodgy69]

It is definitely a very clever design, but when you look at it, is it really worth it.

[millemille]

Grip test for the Niken

https://www.webbikeworld.com/test-yamah ... -traction/

Yamaha actually claim 80% more trip.

When the Piaggio MP3 came out, a friend of mine who's been working as a tour guide for Globebusters got to test that three wheeler. They were invited to take their test machines off-road and she said it was "uncrashable".

That's not a front wheel grip test because they aren't measuring slip angle (steering angle and lean angle vs. parabola of bike's track) to determine whether the front is sliding or not.

What they have done with that test is prove exactly what I'm saying, the Niken can slide the front and not tuck the front wheel and/or suddenly change lean angle - which is what makes a conventional bike have a front end crash - for a lot longer before the rider is aware that the front is sliding.

Like I said before, if I had to ride a bike on a poor condition, twisty, wet road in the dark I'd choose a Niken just because of how it behaves when the front is sliding.

[millemille]

It is definitely a very clever design, but when you look at it, is it really worth it.

To me, a significant chunk of the answer to that question is how much it costs to keep that incredibly complicated front end in serviceable condition and how long it takes riding through a UK winter with salted roads before the chromed linear bearing shafts are corroded and the bearings are knackered.

The Yamaha dealer I had the demo bike from last year didn't have a clue. Yamaha UK didn't have a clue. Speaking to an acquaintance who's a Yamaha technician he wasn't even sure if it was possible to replace some of the front end bearings.

[millemille]

I'd have a Niken if....

It was possible to get some decent tyres in the 15" front wheel size (they're limited to what essentially are superscooter front tyres).

If it was possible to significantly improve the front brake performance (the 15" front wheels limit the size of the front disks and irrespective of the disc size the brakes are being worked hard by the extra weight of the Niken over a conventional bike).

If it was possible to shed 30kg of weight off the bike and/or get 30bhp more out of the engine, but not without improving the front brakes first!

Dramatically improve the quality and performance of the forks and rear shock.

It could be proved that the funky front end didn't add more than 15% (or thereabouts) to the maintenance costs when compared to an MT09.

[weeksy]

rather enlightening.

[The Spin Doctor]

As I said in another comment, Dave Keilty out in NZ didn't initially 'get' the Niken and couldn't see any plus over his V-Strom... until he had to ride it from Auckland to Wellington one evening along mostly twisty, badly surfaced roads on a wet, dark evening... and back again next morning. He said it was all about the front end - on the V-Strom he'd have been worried all about the front tyre all the way... but on the Niken there was just no issue.

[weeksy]

I wonder if @Alan PBTD would allow them out on track at the same time as 'normal' bikes ?

[Count Steer]

I wonder if @Alan PBTD would allow them out on track at the same time as 'normal' bikes ?

It would be interesting to know why not (if they weren't allowed). Hard to see why they shouldn't do track days.
If they're as good as the vid suggests it raises the question of could the design be used competitively - to any advantage? I imagine there's some basic rule that would stop them.

[weeksy]

I wonder if @Alan PBTD would allow them out on track at the same time as 'normal' bikes ?

It would be interesting to know why not (if they weren't allowed). Hard to see why they shouldn't do track days.
If they're as good as the vid suggests it raises the question of could the design be used competitively - to any advantage? I imagine there's some basic rule that would stop them.

No problem at all. On the phone to him now for something unrelated.

[Yorick]

Maybe not allowed on track for insurance reasons

[Count Steer]

I wonder if @Alan PBTD would allow them out on track at the same time as 'normal' bikes ?

It would be interesting to know why not (if they weren't allowed). Hard to see why they shouldn't do track days.
If they're as good as the vid suggests it raises the question of could the design be used competitively - to any advantage? I imagine there's some basic rule that would stop them.

No problem at all. On the phone to him now for something unrelated.

For track days.

I was also wondering about stuff like GP. 'It's a wet one lads, get the Niken front end on sharpish'.

[weeksy]

Earlier this year on a PBTD day.

pbtd 2021 (14) by Steve Weeks, on Flickr

[Tricky]

Cracking deal on them here - £9495 OTR to buy (they're ~ £15k list) or £1500 down and £89 per month PCP, hmmm....

https://www.wiganyamaha.co.uk/new-bikes ... -niken-924

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Our local Yamaha dealer is doing them for a similar price