Textile jackets

[Skub]

Previous 20 years I mostly had top of the range Rukka stuff, but it always leaked somewhere, either on the front or shoulders. Not much in the way of leaks, but little ones are as annoying as big ones.

This topic boggles my mind a little. Given the expense of Rukka gear,do buyers in general just accept leaky clothing,or do they keep going back until they get something which doesn't leak?

Surely a buyer has the right to expect waterproof bike kit to be...er..waterproof,even if it's not hyper expensive? With Rukka and it's contemporaries that expectation to perform becomes imperative,doesn't it?

If I spent upwards of 2k,I'd expect it to do the job properly and to do it for a long time. Am I deluded to expect that?

[Horse]

IIRC Goretex used to insist that products incorporating their materials had a 5 year guarantee.

Perhaps they have watered it down?

[Whysub]

Sorry Skub, I should have said that "after a year or so of almost daily use, it always leaked somewhere".
They were worn all year round for 20k to 25k and I think after constant wear, the goretex must have broken down. I just used to get another one from work as being out on the bike in all conditions, staying dry was paramount. I think they had some guarentee but as Ì needed a jacket, it was just replaced rather than sent back.

My Hideout kit never let in a drop of water, despite being worn almost daily for three years and 60 odd thousand miles.

[Skub]

My Hideout kit never let in a drop of water, despite being worn almost daily for three years and 60 odd thousand miles.

If you pay for a premium product,that's the way it should be.

Maybe we don't complain enough and that allows manufacturers to sell underperforming kit regardless of cost. In modern times it shouldn't be difficult to buy waterproof bike kit,even if it's 'cheap'.

It seems we all buy into a brand,then don't like to admit if it isn't up to scratch,as if it reflects on personal credibility,or something! This lets the brand away with everything.

[Rockburner]

Previous 20 years I mostly had top of the range Rukka stuff, but it always leaked somewhere, either on the front or shoulders. Not much in the way of leaks, but little ones are as annoying as big ones.

This topic boggles my mind a little. Given the expense of Rukka gear,do buyers in general just accept leaky clothing,or do they keep going back until they get something which doesn't leak?

Surely a buyer has the right to expect waterproof bike kit to be...er..waterproof,even if it's not hyper expensive? With Rukka and it's contemporaries that expectation to perform becomes imperative,doesn't it?

If I spent upwards of 2k,I'd expect it to do the job properly and to do it for a long time. Am I deluded to expect that?

Nope - I've taken stuff back that leaked many times, and always had either a replacement (which went back if it leaked), or refund.

If it's sold as waterproof, then I ain't accepting anything less.

[Rockburner]

Holy thread resurrection Batman!

Well that is an interesting read... I hadn't realised that it was 3 years since i got my Pace Guard Tour jacket.

I've barely worn it, maybe 3 times in total? But today, i figured it was the ideal thing for a spot of touring in the Belgian forests.

Imagine my disappointment then to arrive at Dover after only about 20 minutes of showers, with a pocket full of rainwater.

"There'll be a letter about this in the Times tomorrow!"

[gremlin]

Imagine my disappointment then to arrive at Dover after only about 20 minutes of showers, with a pocket full of rainwater.

Did you zip them up? My HG Master V, (still going strong after years of abuse) has waterproof pockets. If I don't close them, they fill with water and stay filled until I turn them inside out. I reckon I could transport a couple of goldfish across London in them pockets should the need arise.

[Rockburner]

Imagine my disappointment then to arrive at Dover after only about 20 minutes of showers, with a pocket full of rainwater.

Did you zip them up? My HG Master V, (still going strong after years of abuse) has waterproof pockets. If I don't close them, they fill with water and stay filled until I turn them inside out. I reckon I could transport a couple of goldfish across London in them pockets should the need arise.

Pretty damn sure i did, yes, because my house keys were in that pocket. I'm also one of those riders who is always compulsively checking their pockets are closed!

[Rockburner]

Update:

While I was in Belgium I discovered that one of the sleeve vents (which I wasn't even aware the jacket had!) actually has a manufacturing flaw..... there's no zipper on it!

So - the Pace Guard Tour jacket was returned to Vines yesterday, we'll see what they reply. Given that the sleeve vent is inoperable, the salesman I dealt with is going to use that flaw as the main reason for the return.

An interesting fact for @Skub : that I discovered while talking to the guys at Vines: BMW have stopped marketing their gear as "waterproof", and now just use "water-resistant". (Although I didn't actually read any of the blurb for their new gear, but that was the thrust of what the sales guys were saying).
On that basis I'm expecting that BMW are going to give up and just refund me the initial payment.... (which I discovered when I found the initial receipt was the paltry sum of only £396!)


Assuming I get the refund, I'm now wondering what to get for the occasional commute / tour.

Last year I did a FLASH tour in a leather jacket, but used an overjacket when it rained (which worked fine, but was a faff to get on/off), but for commutes/tours I'd still prefer an outfit that doesn't need an over-jacket, especially in autumn/winter/spring.

[Skub]

It's a piss poor situation where a rider can pay serious money for 'waterproof' kit and yet not have any real expectation of it actually keeping water out. Here we are in 2024 and no one can make genuine waterproof motorcycle gear?

[Supermofo]

It's a piss poor situation where a rider can pay serious money for 'waterproof' kit and yet not have any real expectation of it actually keeping water out. Here we are in 2024 and no one can make genuine waterproof motorcycle gear?

Yeah agree. A £400 jacket should be waterproof!

[Yorick]

It's a piss poor situation where a rider can pay serious money for 'waterproof' kit and yet not have any real expectation of it actually keeping water out. Here we are in 2024 and no one can make genuine waterproof motorcycle gear?

Yeah agree. A £400 jacket should be waterproof!

Wassat?

[Ian]

From personal experience my Halvarssons Amazon laminated jacket is waterproof. It's been superseded by a newer model but should still have a laminated jacket in the range.
My Halvarssons Prince trousers have only got damp at the crotch once due sitting in water pooling while I sat for an hour in a torrential downpour waiting for the accident blocking the motorway to be cleared.

It's not cheap though and they have some funny sizes ( eg ignore D sizes they mean short leg fat belly)

[Rockburner]

It's a piss poor situation where a rider can pay serious money for 'waterproof' kit and yet not have any real expectation of it actually keeping water out. Here we are in 2024 and no one can make genuine waterproof motorcycle gear?

Yeah agree. A £400 jacket should be waterproof!

The jacket I bought originally was marked down (end-of-life sale).

New, the BMW Streetguard was £550 before VAT. It WAS waterproof (apart from the unprotected zipped pockets). It wouldn't have been too hard to design exactly the same jacket with pocket that were hidden under flaps, that was all it needed. But BMW didn't do that. I had 4 Streeguards, all were perfectly waterproof apart from the pockets: it was a design flaw on that jacket, not a material flaw.

The Pace Guard Tour that I eventually had as a goodwill replacement (the one that's just been returned) retailed at (iirc) about £700 before VAT, I got mine as a direct replacement, but it has exactly the same design flaw. (and was less of a complete kit than the Streetguard anyway).

It IS possible to make a properly waterproof tri-laminate jacket, the tri-laminate material IS waterproof, and does breathe: it's the design features that compromise the material's abilities; such as : rubber-faced zips placed in locations where they are not protected the flexing that happens when the rider sits on a bike, and thus the rubber seal's performance is compromised.


All that is needed is some intelligent design.

[Rockburner]

From personal experience my Halvarssons Amazon laminated jacket is waterproof. It's been superseded by a newer model but should still have a laminated jacket in the range.
My Halvarssons Prince trousers have only got damp at the crotch once due sitting in water pooling while I sat for an hour in a torrential downpour waiting for the accident blocking the motorway to be cleared.

It's not cheap though and they have some funny sizes ( eg ignore D sizes they mean short leg fat belly)

I'll be having a look at the Halvarssons stuff. I do specifically like the tri-laminate material as an outer for reasons I've expounded in the past.

[ChrisW]

My brother has recently treated himself to a set of Rukka Nivala Jacket/Trousers. Says it's the only gear he's ever had which is literally waterproof. I did look up the prices & I'd certainly hope it would be.

[Ian]

I'll be having a look at the Halvarssons stuff. I do specifically like the tri-laminate material as an outer for reasons I've expounded in the past.

I also like that they put hi-art which is like Terry towelling made out of dyneema inside the impact areas. It's very abrasion resistant whereas most textiles simply rely on the armour for that, and armour slides around.

[Rockburner]

Got an email today which basically said "F.Y.", but wrapped up in nice flowery language.

I'll have another go, and will take the next step to see if i can get a refund, I'm pissed off about it tbh.

Because of all this fecking around with BMW refusing repeatedly to do a refund instead of replacing the, I'm going to be left with a jacket that isn't half as useful (even taking into account the compromised pockets) as the jacket i bought in the first place.
The Pace Guard jacket is crap compared to the Streetguard .

[Ian]

Theres a zip missing FFS! How do they defend that?
Is it worth talking to citizens advice they can at least tell you the legislation to quote.

[Rockburner]

Theres a zip missing FFS! How do they defend that?
Is it worth talking to citizens advice they can at least tell you the legislation to quote.

According to the email, the next step is to talk to "MotorCode", who are listed on the invoice under the "Disputes" clause.

I'll do more research next week, but basically yeah, I've not had a product that matched the description at all .