revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Dodgy knees wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:25 am Atm, I guess you can only 'force feed' a battery with charge so much before things go very wrong. It's always gonna take longer than a petrol stop. That's why I reckon the home charge for commuting vehicles should be first agenda.

I could be wrong.

There are many options being investigated.

There are already inductive charging systems in place (possibly inc MK), currently (sic) for buses.

Horse wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:48 am

Dodgy knees wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:25 am Atm, I guess you can only 'force feed' a battery with charge so much before things go very wrong. It's always gonna take longer than a petrol stop. That's why I reckon the home charge for commuting vehicles should be first agenda.

I could be wrong.

There are many options being investigated.

There are already inductive charging systems in place (possibly inc MK), currently (sic) for buses.

I can't see them being used outside of the few places there are dedicated bus only roads (and I don't mean bus lanes). The cost of installing the network even on main roads would be astronomical, and there's masses of other infrastructure buried beneath the surface which would almost certainly be a problem.

The ones in MK are in places they know the buses are gonna sit for a while. I.e. at the terminus, the train station etc. They're not meant for driving along.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:17 pm

Horse wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:48 am
There are many options being investigated.

There are already inductive charging systems in place (possibly inc MK), currently (sic) for buses.

I can't see them being used outside of the few places there are dedicated bus only roads (and I don't mean bus lanes). The cost of installing the network even on main roads would be astronomical, and there's masses of other infrastructure buried beneath the surface which would almost certainly be a problem.

It was intended as just one example of many that are being developed, the eventual outcome will be a mix of methods rather than one 'charge at home (office, depot, etc).

Even with the charge at home, that will be managed to spread the load.

There are many objections made to widespread introduction of EVs, and lots of glee when it goes wrong (like broken chargers).

Like AVs, there's a huge amount of money being poured into EVs, in many ways. Dazzle certainly knows more than I do, but if we told you then he would have to kill you and I've forgotten most of what I've overheard.

Screwdriver wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:55 pm The sensible way to do it is to have hot swap battery packs. A universal design that all manufacturers subscribe to. Then you'd just rock up to an eStop and swap over your battery for a charged one.

The manufacturers won't do that and will actively stop anyone from doing that by design simply in order to allow them to make more money.

Honda and others recently announced a joint initiative on this.

Edit:

www.motorcyclenews.com/amp/news/electri ... batteries/

Honda, KTM, Piaggio and Yamaha have signed an agreement to create a ‘swappable batteries consortium’ with a view to standardising batteries in electric bikes. Battery standardisation has been one of the key stumbling blocks to electrification, but it looks like this will finally be overcome.

...

This also isn’t the first time this sort of project has been suggested with the e-Yan Osaka trial in 2020 bringing together Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki.

The group will start work in May to standardise the shape, size and tech specs of a swappable battery standard to fit mopeds and motorcycles.

Oi, find your own threads, leccy geeks
Righto then. We've done our run to the coast and back.
Observer no3 spent quite some time behind me.
His comments were, i apex l/h bends too much, he reckons I need to turn in a yard or 2 later as my bike is quite flickable.
Not a mention of gear usage!
I did push him for 'any other issues'
Ho hum!

On our shitty UK roads, I think I tend to keep my line around bends, not crossing the middle section if I can help it. It does depend on lot's of things though.

Demannu wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:41 pm I need to turn in a yard or 2 later as my bike is quite flickable.

Most bikes will steer quickly with a good hoik on the bars. Steering more quickly means you can steer 'later'*

* When you can see the exit** rather than earlier.

** A fair guide is being able to see both sides of the road

Horse wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:25 pm

Demannu wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:41 pm I need to turn in a yard or 2 later as my bike is quite flickable.

Most bikes will steer quickly with a good hoik on the bars. Steering more quickly means you can steer 'later'*

* When you can see the exit** rather than earlier.

** A fair guide is being able to see both sides of the road

I'm looking at the VP, once it starts to move away from me, I'm starting to apply throttle and settle the bike, then, as you said, as soon as I can see the exit line I'm gone.
Remember this is France, so apply it to rh bends over your side!.
I'm just happy there were no gear selection issues with him.
I think they have a certain bee in their bonnets and like to use it as their niggling stick!

Do you brake into turns? If you brake/slow/whatever on the approach, then try getting a little bit (sometimes called 'neutral') of throttle on then to get the bike settled.

VP is ok for a guide to how sharp the bend ahead is, but (if you're using positioning, lines, etc) being able to see both sides of the road before you straighten or increase speed means there's less chance of being surprised.

And being able to see both verges means it applies to riding on either side

Screwdriver wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:55 pm The sensible way to do it is to have hot swap battery packs. A universal design that all manufacturers subscribe to. Then you'd just rock up to an eStop and swap over your battery for a charged one.

The manufacturers won't do that and will actively stop anyone from doing that by design simply in order to allow them to make more money.

Actually, there are several consortiums already collaborating on swappable batteries and an up-and-running battery swap system operating in Taiwan.

But they are likely to be limited to scooters and small motorcycles, simply because of the ease of handling of a smaller battery.

It's hard to see how you can put a swappable battery into a car, simply because of the dimensions and mass distribution.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:52 am

It's hard to see how you can put a swappable battery into a car, simply because of the dimensions and mass distribution.

Letterbox front grille, and slide it in and out like a drawer, with a mini forklift-type gadget.

slowsider wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:03 am

The Spin Doctor wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:52 am

It's hard to see how you can put a swappable battery into a car, simply because of the dimensions and mass distribution.

Letterbox front grille, and slide it in and out like a drawer, with a mini forklift-type gadget.

AAMOI how much does a Tesla battery pack weigh?

slowsider wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:03 am Letterbox front grille, and slide it in and out like a drawer, with a mini forklift-type gadget.

Hmm. Possibly. Although as the underfloor battery has to be sculpted round the footwells, I suspect side loading would be easier.

I was trying to find some diagrams to show where the batteries are situated - I know one technology that was being talked about a couple of years back was for 'formed' batteries that can be shaped and used as stressed parts of the vehicle. They clearly wouldn't be swappable, if they happen.

Horse wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:22 am

slowsider wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:03 am

The Spin Doctor wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:52 am

It's hard to see how you can put a swappable battery into a car, simply because of the dimensions and mass distribution.

Letterbox front grille, and slide it in and out like a drawer, with a mini forklift-type gadget.

AAMOI how much does a Tesla battery pack weigh?

Always with the problems. ..

The Spin Doctor wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:33 am
I was trying to find some diagrams to show where the batteries are situated - I know one technology that was being talked about a couple of years back was for 'formed' batteries that can be shaped and used as stressed parts of the vehicle. They clearly wouldn't be swappable, if they happen.

Most battery packs are an integral part of the vehicle, certainly in dedicated EVs (i.e. not an electric version of an existing car). The battery is a big ol' chunk and it needs to be contained in a reasonably secure box, thus is make sense to have that box pull double-duty as the structure of the car.

You also need to consider that the battery is quite heavy, so as well as the obvious difficulty in changing a heavy battery you also have to then make a structure which is substantial enough to hold it. If you've got a 700kg battery you need a structure which can hold on to 700kg during all the things you do when driving as well as during crashes etc. You don't want it coming loose! So then on top of your 700kg battery you've got another load of extra mass in support. Plus the battery itself needs to be strong/stiff enough to be self supporting when you take it out. Another reason why batteries tend to double up as structure.

Most of them are done as 'Skateboards' like this which keep the mass really low down. You also then free up loads of interior space for people etc. It's possible to drive around on just this skateboard.

Does this mean a move away from monocoque designs?

Car's haven't really been monocoque for a long time. They're partial monocoque, partial spaceframe hybrids. So if you look at a so called "Body in White" you can see that some bits are like stressed bodywork and some bits are struts etc.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:33 am

slowsider wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:03 am Letterbox front grille, and slide it in and out like a drawer, with a mini forklift-type gadget.

Hmm. Possibly. Although as the underfloor battery has to be sculpted round the footwells, I suspect side loading would be easier.

I was trying to find some diagrams to show where the batteries are situated - I know one technology that was being talked about a couple of years back was for 'formed' batteries that can be shaped and used as stressed parts of the vehicle. They clearly wouldn't be swappable, if they happen.

https://www.insideevs.com/news/450534/t ... packs/amp/

https://insideevs.com/news/445282/tesla ... structure/