Liv Embolden E+, the imperial star destroyer.

[weeksy]

The main concern is ruining the geometry by adding 20mm to the front end, which is more why I can't be bothered. Hiring one is £89 for the day at bpw, that's just not happening.
The being held up side of things is interesting indeed, up in the peaks a few of the lads seemed to be finding the climbing a fair bit easier than me and I'm not convinced they're fitter than me, but they flew up some stuff where I wasn't. I wonder if that's technique, motor delivery or battery meaning they could use a bit more power mode.

[Couchy]

The main concern is ruining the geometry by adding 20mm to the front end, which is more why I can't be bothered. Hiring one is £89 for the day at bpw, that's just not happening.
The being held up side of things is interesting indeed, up in the peaks a few of the lads seemed to be finding the climbing a fair bit easier than me and I'm not convinced they're fitter than me, but they flew up some stuff where I wasn't. I wonder if that's technique, motor delivery or battery meaning they could use a bit more power mode.

The problem is people believe that ebikes do all the work and you don’t get fit riding one, the peaks ride proved what nonsense that is as you found it quite physically hard work despite all the miles you do on your normal bikes. I didn’t see any difference in fitness between any of us despite in my case only riding an ebike. I’ve always said 100% physical effort is the same no matter what bike you are on. There’s no technique on the climbs you just pedal like a normal bike

[weeksy]

Just threw some new brake pads at this one. The brakes in the Peaks were absolutely dire... Although not as bad at start of the day, so either the pads cooked themselves or they hated the wet that came later... but they were garbage. So it's got new pads in now.

Along with that i dropped 6psi out of the front and 12 our of the rear suspension. Both were a tiny bit stiff and only using 75% of travel up in the Peaks, so sorted them a little bit. Might be arranging something with Fil2 for a week on Fri before we go away to Wales, if we do then i'll throw the Shockwiz on it for that ride.

[G.P]

Sounded like a great day out, really glad you enjoyed it

For unfit old fuckers like me, none of the days would take place without the assistance.

That time I came out with you and did what? 14 or 15 miles of mild XC? I couldn't have done that at ANYWHERE the pace you were going and consequently wouldn't have tried it,But, once we'd done, I'd only used one bar (20%) of the battery. Its good to see that someone who doesn'r NEED the motor can get a different kick out of the experience.

[Couchy]

Sounded like a great day out, really glad you enjoyed it

For unfit old fuckers like me, none of the days would take place without the assistance.

That time I came out with you and did what? 14 or 15 miles of mild XC? I couldn't have done that at ANYWHERE the pace you were going and consequently wouldn't have tried it,But, once we'd done, I'd only used one bar (20%) of the battery. Its good to see that someone who doesn'r NEED the motor can get a different kick out of the experience.

Trust me he needed the motor that day

[G.P]

Trust me he needed the motor that day

oh I'm sure mate. I hadn't really thought about using them as a tool do do everything flat out, merely as a compensation for climbs. I was pleased withmyself coming back from a ride with Weeksy only having used 20% of battery, how much more fun would I have had if I'd used 100% ..

[weeksy]

2021-06-02_07-45-47 by Steve Weeks, on Flickr

The rest of yesterday was on this thing once again. Due to the effort of the mornings riding, you just can't keep with the Ebikes on the manaual bikes, so i jumped on the ebike for the rest of the rides. The Liv was sharp and precise, the short wheel base really does help with it's turning and at somewhere like Pines it works really well in terms of handling.
For me though it's let down with various aspects. One being the 15.6mph limit, it's not that i necessarily want MORE... but when you're at places like this, you're bordering on the limit of it all the time, on-off-on-off... Meh.
Second letdown for me is how it feels as you disengage when you stop pedalling, coming into a tight 90s through 2 trees for example, you have to set your feet and the motor disengages with a clunk, then re-engages with a clunk on the next stroke. In isolation that's OK but at Pines it's pretty much constant, clunk, turn, clunk, turn.

It does though eat up the trails with ease... I'm still not convinced i 'get' the power and delivery right, but that's possibly as Couchy was running in derestrict mode so it flatters his uphill speed and makes mine feel slow. But still, i don't feel it 'pulls' as i'd expect it should... Although, seeing the speed we pass manual bikes, i think they'd disagree.

I used only 2/5 of the battery lights, despite running at least 50% of the ride on full power to try and stay with the superbike. Which was pretty good in that context i have to say

As always, it changes the dynamics of the ride again into a power fest... Which is ok, but i'm still not sold lol. I know, some of you are thinking i'm just saying it or deluded, but i really do prefer the weight, handling and performance of the manual and lighter bikes.

[MingtheMerciless]

I was out on Mrs M's Levo yesterday as I was riding with my much younger and fitter mate. We were chatting about the differences between clockwork and EBikes, its a bit like riding a 250 or a Super-bike. Ones all about corner speed, the others about slow in, fast out and stomp on the gas at corner exit. Both fun, just in different ways.

Also the 5 mile ride home from the pub with its seemingly never ending climb wasn't the normal misery-fest

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I get what Weeksy is saying about handling, my ebike feels like a DRZ400 and a manual bike like a YZ125, I'm not fit and I think I could do a similar time on tight trails on a manual bike to an ebike, but the ebike is, for me, much more enjoyable.

[Couchy]

I rode the Liv, meh. My whyte feels so light and playful after the Liv it’s like it isn’t an ebike

[crust]

"Afan, sat?" "err, no shock or fitness" "Take Ceri's Liv," So yesterday was my turn on the Imperial Star Destroyer.
Lifting it into the car, ye gods, this thing weights a ton!
Get to Afan, oof, lift it out of car, quick pedal around car park and we're off. Tried bouncing it off a couple of little rocks on the ride down to the start, nope nothing. Get to steep part on the initial singletrack, push, push - four lights of boost and pedal up, no great effort required. Easy.
Halfway up the Wall climb is a really nice section, gently undulating, great fun on a mountain bike as you can pump the suspension to maintain momentum and pull manuals over puddles and dips, not on the Liv ☹
After that is a steep fire-road grind, normally for me this is a killer whilst Steve chats to me, on the Liv I cruised up whilst he crept up red faced dripping all the way.
Get to the top and the downhill sections.
Woah, this thing picks up speed quickly, turning not so much, but hey, you don’t need to pick your way that precisely, it’ll bludgeon over or down stuff without any fuss.
Thoughts, motor is noisy, intrusively so, I like the quietness, the gentle crunch of tyres, splash of water, on this its WIRRRRRR. It weighs a ton, difficult to lift into the car, move around the garage, to manual over things, not vert playful on the trail.
On the plus side it makes getting up things extremely easy, you can set off on a steep bit and just pedal up. It descends very well, not getting deflected, holding a line almost no matter what.
Has it converted me to ebikeness, no not really, to me it feels like a cross between motor cycle trail riding and mountain biking but with the limitations of both but not all of the benefits, add to that the purchase cost and battery limitations and I’m out.
Maybe in a year or two old age will prompt or if my financial circumstances change I’ll reconsider.

[weeksy]

Very very interesting that i can read your review exactly the same as reading my own. OK, so we discussed it in person on the day too, but was still incredibly interesting to me to get your views so closely aligned to mine, at times i've felt i'm in the wrong with Ebikes and missing out on something that everyone else seems to grasp but i completely miss.... But it seems that's not necessarily the case after all.

[millemille]

Maybe it's the case that you've not ridden a decent e-bike?

@Couchy has ridden yours and didn't have particularly nice things to say about it and he's probably ridden more e-bikes than any one else?

[weeksy]

Maybe it's the case that you've not ridden a decent e-bike?

@Couchy has ridden yours and didn't have particularly nice things to say about it and he's probably ridden more e-bikes than any one else?

Him or me?

I agree the Liv isn't an amazing thing, bit it's hardly a Halfords special too. I've ridden a fair few now and still far from bowled over

[MingtheMerciless]

Mrs M's Levo (when its working) is bloody awesome. Yes the weight tells on some corners and lifting over gates but it's an absolute hoot to ride. Just very different from the Curtis.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

to me it feels like a cross between motor cycle trail riding and mountain biking but with the limitations of both but not all of the benefits,

I agree completely with this statement, and it's what I like about my ebike, different people like different things, and there is no overall right or wrong, the only thing that matters is what's right for you, no one has to have an ebike, no one has to have a normal bike, you can have which ever bike you like, they're different things.

[Couchy]

"Afan, sat?" "err, no shock or fitness" "Take Ceri's Liv," So yesterday was my turn on the Imperial Star Destroyer.
Lifting it into the car, ye gods, this thing weights a ton!
Get to Afan, oof, lift it out of car, quick pedal around car park and we're off. Tried bouncing it off a couple of little rocks on the ride down to the start, nope nothing. Get to steep part on the initial singletrack, push, push - four lights of boost and pedal up, no great effort required. Easy.
Halfway up the Wall climb is a really nice section, gently undulating, great fun on a mountain bike as you can pump the suspension to maintain momentum and pull manuals over puddles and dips, not on the Liv ☹
After that is a steep fire-road grind, normally for me this is a killer whilst Steve chats to me, on the Liv I cruised up whilst he crept up red faced dripping all the way.
Get to the top and the downhill sections.
Woah, this thing picks up speed quickly, turning not so much, but hey, you don’t need to pick your way that precisely, it’ll bludgeon over or down stuff without any fuss.
Thoughts, motor is noisy, intrusively so, I like the quietness, the gentle crunch of tyres, splash of water, on this its WIRRRRRR. It weighs a ton, difficult to lift into the car, move around the garage, to manual over things, not vert playful on the trail.
On the plus side it makes getting up things extremely easy, you can set off on a steep bit and just pedal up. It descends very well, not getting deflected, holding a line almost no matter what.
Has it converted me to ebikeness, no not really, to me it feels like a cross between motor cycle trail riding and mountain biking but with the limitations of both but not all of the benefits, add to that the purchase cost and battery limitations and I’m out.
Maybe in a year or two old age will prompt or if my financial circumstances change I’ll reconsider.

As a bike to try out an ebike it would honestly put you off forever. It feels heavy and solid. There’s no playfulness to it at all and no fun to be had.
I know you were borrowing to get out rather than to see what an ebike is like but I wouldn’t blame you if you never rode an ebike again, but it’s like riding a penny farthing and declaring all cycles as rubbish.

You do need to try something like my whyte which is in a different league altogether

As for the ups being easy, only when with normal bikes, Ask Steve what it’s like at an ebike pace

[Couchy]

Very very interesting that i can read your review exactly the same as reading my own. OK, so we discussed it in person on the day too, but was still incredibly interesting to me to get your views so closely aligned to mine, at times i've felt i'm in the wrong with Ebikes and missing out on something that everyone else seems to grasp but i completely miss.... But it seems that's not necessarily the case after all.

You know this is a crazy statement, you wouldn’t ride a Suzuki bandit then declare all motorbikes are rubbish and not try a zx10r would you ?

[weeksy]

Very very interesting that i can read your review exactly the same as reading my own. OK, so we discussed it in person on the day too, but was still incredibly interesting to me to get your views so closely aligned to mine, at times i've felt i'm in the wrong with Ebikes and missing out on something that everyone else seems to grasp but i completely miss.... But it seems that's not necessarily the case after all.

You know this is a crazy statement, you wouldn’t ride a Suzuki bandit then declare all motorbikes are rubbish and not try a zx10r would you ?

Tis a good point, but it's not necessarily the fact it's not a zx10 I don't like about it.
I didn't like your Whyte any more or less than the Liv. It was probably better, but still just as much a no for me

[Couchy]

Very very interesting that i can read your review exactly the same as reading my own. OK, so we discussed it in person on the day too, but was still incredibly interesting to me to get your views so closely aligned to mine, at times i've felt i'm in the wrong with Ebikes and missing out on something that everyone else seems to grasp but i completely miss.... But it seems that's not necessarily the case after all.

You know this is a crazy statement, you wouldn’t ride a Suzuki bandit then declare all motorbikes are rubbish and not try a zx10r would you ?

Tis a good point, but it's not necessarily the fact it's not a zx10 I don't like about it.
I didn't like your Whyte any more or less than the Liv. It was probably better, but still just as much a no for me

You didn’t try the whyte on anything technical, the front end is massively lighter and it wants to leave the ground whenever it can. They couldn’t be more different which is weird how you didn’t like it anymore. We know you don’t like them though