revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Supermofo wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 10:30 am

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 9:41 am 1. Isn't 'being cool' one of the reasons for biking?

Not gonna lie. Huge vertical wheelie = Cool. U-turn...yeah not really.

Falling over because you put both feet off the footrests, panicked, grabbed the front brake with the bike leant over? Not at all kewl!

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 10:37 am

Supermofo wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 10:30 am

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 9:41 am 1. Isn't 'being cool' one of the reasons for biking?

Not gonna lie. Huge vertical wheelie = Cool. U-turn...yeah not really.

Falling over because you put both feet off the footrests, panicked, grabbed the front brake with the bike leant over? Not at all kewl!

On a sunny Sunday afternoon at eg Rykas.

Count Steer wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 2:37 pm

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 10:37 am

Supermofo wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 10:30 am

Not gonna lie. Huge vertical wheelie = Cool. U-turn...yeah not really.

Falling over because you put both feet off the footrests, panicked, grabbed the front brake with the bike leant over? Not at all kewl!

On a sunny Sunday afternoon at eg Rykas.

We've all done it....

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 9:41 am

Noggin wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 9:07 am I always struggled with U-turns but I think that's partly because I didn't start on a little bike - apart from the CBT and a couple of days on the DAS course.

Perhaps - and this isn't taking the piss - if you'd had better training on the basics, the U would have been easier for you.

I've spent many hours teaching riders to do feet up, near full lock, U turns - on large BMWs. Yes, it's easier on small bikes, but that can actually result in riders struggling on bigger, heavier, bikes.

Oh totally - but I didn't get the training because it was limited in the DAS course!! However, I did practice and I did go back for a refresher (different school) once I bought a big bike a few years later

But yeah, I'm not typical - test passed at 27 (then a parachute accident put me out of action for a bit!); first bike at 32, rode all winter (often at night on the way home from working in a pub if it wasn't icy! Although I did ride that bike, and only that bike, on snow!!); bigger bike and met an old friend out and about and had a few years of him teaching me road riding followed by my main riding buddy continuing the learning .

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 9:41 am

Noggin wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 9:07 am but you need the pass to have the freedom to learn more!

And how many people will actually bother?

And there's the 'pass your test, then learn to ride' thing I mentioned earlier ...

I'm not dismissing the need - but fails on one point for someone not a kid, well I just think an older person is more likely to actually learn after the test than an 18 year old Probably wrong !!

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 9:41 am

Noggin wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 9:07 am Yes it looks cool, but you can, IRL, put your feet down.

1. Isn't 'being cool' one of the reasons for biking?

2. I'm fine with people putting a foot down - but, often, they'll do it as a panic, rather than controlled, action.

1 - I have never been described as cool (oh, my niece said the other night that her friends want to meet her cool Aunty - so that's one time )

2 - even if you have trained loads, there are still times that panic sets in regardless of training

Noggin wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 3:39 pm

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 9:41 am
Perhaps - and this isn't taking the piss - if you'd had better training on the basics, the U would have been easier for you.

Oh totally - but I didn't get the training because it was limited in the DAS course!!

It hurts to say it, but some trainers aren't as good as they ought to be. In the last couple of years I've talked to recent test-pass riders at bike shows who weren't taught how to steer - and that's when they're tested on it!

However, I did practice and I did go back for a refresher (different school) once I bought a big bike a few years later

I just think an older person is more likely to actually learn after the test than an 18 year old Probably wrong !!

Sadly, riders keep having the same three 'gotcha' crashes.

Even IAM riders crash ...

https://www.devittinsurance.com/guides/ ... ers/?amp=1

"The research ... once their higher mileage is accounted for, IAM RoadSmart members do not report fewer injury and ‘damage-only’ collisions per respondent. In fact they have ‘similar proportions of collision involvement’ to others.

"Advanced riders also have different types of collision. They’re more likely to be in single-vehicle crashes, and those where they drop their own bike."

... even if you have trained loads, there are still times that panic sets in regardless of training

Yup (reverse parallel parking in the car, anyone?)

Avoiding panic involves, knowing what and how, planning ('how' you're going to stop is a biggie), then avoiding both that nagging voice in your head and all the watching eyes ...

But yeah, I'm not typical

Hah!

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 4:37 pm

Noggin wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 3:39 pm

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 9:41 am
Perhaps - and this isn't taking the piss - if you'd had better training on the basics, the U would have been easier for you.

Oh totally - but I didn't get the training because it was limited in the DAS course!!

It hurts to say it, but some trainers aren't as good as they ought to be. In the last couple of years I've talked to recent test-pass riders at bike shows who weren't taught how to steer - and that's when they're tested on it!

I was lucky on the steering, but a lot of things I did learn properly afterwards !! Extra lucky to meet up with the two guys that really taught me how to ride on the road


I've had to relearn each time I get a bike to use here because of the long gaps in riding. But at least I know I need to relearn!! And when I see some of the people riding here (French, Italian mostly but other nationalities too) I do wonder if any of them took lessons or just got the licence in a cereal packet!! (cornering and staying their side of the white line are the biggies for me - just cos your wheels are your side of the white line does not always mean that your head and that of your pillion may well be in direct line with the front of the bus/truck/car coming towards you

And when talking to a colleague in winter, he offered to go to a track day with me as not done one over here; we got to discussing groups. Normally here he said they have four groups - I just said, novice for me which seemed to surprise him. Ok, 9 years ago I was pretty happy in inters, usually aroudn the middle. But I've not been on track for almost 9 years, so I'm gonna head back to novice LOL

Part of not being typical (and a bit of just "being a gurl"

Oh, I forgot - I learned to plan stopping back when I borrowed a mate's ZX12r. That was a very tall bike!! (and the first "big" bike I rode!). Like, properly tippy toes both sides. I rode down a road in Bristol I was used to going down, had to stop at traffic lights. Now on the ZZR600 I never had an issue putting my left foot down here, it was tiptoe, but not offensively so !!!

Anyway - the ZX12 was a bit taller - I still don't know how I didn't fall over

From that moment on always looked to see what the camber was like but actually ended up putting my right foot down and learning hill starts off the clutch !! Never did have a bike I could put my left foot down confidently cos they were all tall

Proper planning is so worth it, especially for stopping



Of course here I have had to go back to left foot down, but I still check, just in case

Noggin wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 7:09 pm Never did have a bike I could put my left foot down confidently cos they were all tall

Proper planning is so worth it, especially for stopping

Of course here I have had to go back to left foot down, but I still check, just in case

Which foot to put down is a conscious decision many riders don't - can't - make, they don't know how to do it.

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 7:48 pm

Noggin wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 7:09 pm Never did have a bike I could put my left foot down confidently cos they were all tall

Proper planning is so worth it, especially for stopping

Of course here I have had to go back to left foot down, but I still check, just in case

Which foot to put down is a conscious decision many riders don't - can't - make, they don't know how to do it.

I learned that the first time I rode a Triumph Tiger 955. I had to hang off the seat to get a toe down! Lovely bike, fantastic engine, but in heavy traffic a nightmare if I had to stop unexpectedly.

Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 8:02 pm I learned that the first time I rode a Triumph Tiger 955. I had to hang off the seat to get a toe down! Lovely bike, fantastic engine, but in heavy traffic a nightmare if I had to stop unexpectedly.

A mate was taken ill, I rode his Varadero back. Easier to not stop too often ...


As a reminder:
When about to stop, last dab on the brakes & squeeze in the clutch, decide which foot, brief but firm press that side to get it to lean, then foot down. If it's the right foot and your bike has boingy forks, you'll need to be careful & gentle with the front brake.

H teaches how to suck eggs - but many riders can't consciously make this choice and action.

Real world example of a need for U turn skills? Hairpin bends, especially uphill, perhaps?

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 7:48 pm

Noggin wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 7:09 pm Never did have a bike I could put my left foot down confidently cos they were all tall

Proper planning is so worth it, especially for stopping

Of course here I have had to go back to left foot down, but I still check, just in case

Which foot to put down is a conscious decision many riders don't - can't - make, they don't know how to do it.

. ? ?

Scootabout wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 9:40 pm Real world example of a need for U turn skills? Hairpin bends, especially uphill, perhaps?

I think downhill hairpins are the worserer!! (Although I do see more videos of people toppling over doing uphill hairpins )

My u-turn ability did improve once I rode a bike up here

Noggin wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2026 9:12 am

Noggin wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 7:09 pm Never did have a bike I could put my lel

If you keep the bike fairly upright, you really only need toes of one foot.

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 7:48 pm Which foot to put down is a conscious decision many riders don't - can't - make, they don't know how to do it.

. ? ?

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 8:54 pm As a reminder:
When about to stop, last dab on the brakes & squeeze in the clutch, decide which foot, brief but firm press that side to get it to lean, then foot down. If it's the right foot and your bike has boingy forks, you'll need to be careful & gentle with the front brake.

H teaches how to suck eggs - but many riders can't consciously make this choice and action.

I think downhill hairpins are the worserer!! (Although I do see more videos of people toppling over doing uphill hairpins )

The cameraman will stake out the locations where it's most likely to happen.

And those vids clobber your 'experienced riders will learn' point

Horse wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2026 9:26 am

Noggin wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2026 9:12 am

Noggin wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 7:09 pm Never did have a bike I could put my lel

If you keep the bike fairly upright, you really only need toes of one foot.

And that is the story of almost my whole biking time!! Tippy toes of one foot

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 7:48 pm Which foot to put down is a conscious decision many riders don't - can't - make, they don't know how to do it.

. ? ?

Horse wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2026 8:54 pm As a reminder:
When about to stop, last dab on the brakes & squeeze in the clutch, decide which foot, brief but firm press that side to get it to lean, then foot down. If it's the right foot and your bike has boingy forks, you'll need to be careful & gentle with the front brake.

H teaches how to suck eggs - but many riders can't consciously make this choice and action.

It just never occurred to me not to know which foot to put down!! The ZX12 issue was within six months of me starting riding so I was doing what I was taught/following the rules - after that time I looked at where my feet needed to go and made the conscious decision

Small point for learning after you pass

Horse wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2026 9:26 am

Noggin wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2026 9:12 am I think downhill hairpins are the worserer!! (Although I do see more videos of people toppling over doing uphill hairpins )

The cameraman will stake out the locations where it's most likely to happen.

And those vids clobber your 'experienced riders will learn' point

I think my point was newly qualified can choose to learn more - not that they will automatically, but they can choose to to gain more skills.

In my experience, many many experienced riders don't think they NEED to learn, cos, you know, they are SOOOOooooooo experienced

(and the issue in France, I suspect, is that the instructor drives a car whilst the students learn how to ride their bikes don't know if that's how they teach in other countries here, but I can't imagine trying to learn without being able to see how the instructor does it to explain what he says!!)



Also, most of the videos I see of those falls are people absolutely not being on a line that will get them up and round safely - some of the lines make me wonder if they drive a car and if so, hopefully not local to me!! (But then I had some really good track instruction on tracks with hairpins, so probably don't take the normal line ?? !!)

Noggin wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2026 9:44 am
It just never occurred to me not to know which foot to put down!!

... after that time I looked at where my feet needed to go and made the conscious decision

Making the decision is just the first part of the process. Subsequently, was it a conscious action (the press) to initiate lean, or did you just 'do it'?

I think my point was newly qualified can choose to learn more - not that they will automatically, but they can choose to to gain more skills.

In my experience, many many experienced riders don't think they NEED to learn, cos, you know, they are SOOOOooooooo experienced :

There's a US bike instructor who said he had 21 years riding experience before joining the police - but actually one year experience repeated another 20 times.

Also, most of the videos I see of those falls are people absolutely not being on a line that will get them up and round safely )

Initially, as we agreed earlier: planning

Next, simple physics:
- need to lean to turn
- need power to stop the bike falling
- need much more power to go up a steep hill

All should be part of the planning

Finally, panic!
- don't drive it through
- don't attempt a 'save' by driving more
- close the throttle, feet out, grab the front brake, fall


Edit:
Think you're short on tall bikes?

Meet Jocelyn Snow. She competes in the GS Trophy events.

Horse wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2026 10:35 am Think you're short on tall bikes?

Meet Jocelyn Snow.

5'1" ain't short short.

MrLongbeard wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2026 10:54 am

Horse wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2026 10:35 am Think you're short on tall bikes?

Meet Jocelyn Snow.

5'1" ain't short short.

Not that tall, either!

.

Horse wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2026 11:20 am Not that tall, either!

The wife at 4' 10" would disagree.

MrLongbeard wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2026 11:27 am

Horse wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2026 11:20 am Not that tall, either!

The wife at 4' 10" would disagree.

We're verging towards ...

Skill can compensate for lack of physical size, in all sorts of areas not just biking.

Tis a bugger when you ain't got either.