My Orange Royal Enfield- New Bike Thread

[weeksy]

Would it be worth flogging yours and buying this instead?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ktm-rc390-cu ... Sw55ZgJ8TL

[Tricky]

Would it be worth flogging yours and buying this instead?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ktm-rc390-cu ... Sw55ZgJ8TL

At first I thought that was naughty and yep, may have for bits if it were a proper cup bike and still had the forks and shock but its not- it's had all the good bits robbed from it, now has standard suspension, even still got the cat in there.

It's just an unregistered RC390 with a fancy front disk, end can and race plastic so no.

And anyway, this bike for me is all about the project bit

[weeksy]

Would it be worth flogging yours and buying this instead?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ktm-rc390-cu ... Sw55ZgJ8TL

At first I thought that was naughty and yep, may have for bits if it were a proper cup bike and still had the forks and shock but its not- it's had all the good bits robbed from it, now has standard suspension, even still got the cat in there.

It's just an unregistered RC390 with a fancy front disk, end can and race plastic so no.

And anyway, this bike for me is all about the project bit

Ah sorry, i read, has all the kit parts.... but missed the bit about the shock and forks... what a plum...

[Horse]

My old 400cc Honda CB1 with 33bhp restrictor washers in could crack a tonne

Almost always your engineering knowledge is superb and fascinating.

But once in a while, it lets you down.

Unless, perhaps, you meant kph?

[Ditchfinder]

I had a GPz305 which can't have put out any more than 30hp and I saw an (indicated) ton on that - not for vey long and a tailwind and loooooooong stretch of empty dual carriageway may have been required

[Horse]

I saw an (indicated) ton

[KungFooBob]

The X7 probably made less than 30bhp and that was supposed to be able to crack the ton.

I can't make my 50bhp Guzzi tho'

[Taipan]

My 700 twin wont go into 3 figures either!

[Taipan]

My 700 twin wont go into 3 figures either!

[Tricky]

Well tomorrow is dyno day.

As I mentioned above, my original plan of doing runs with the RapidBike box on then stripping that out for the Powertronics has been amended as I didn't want to risk not testing the Powertronics new loom I obtained for the RC before I got to the dyno, so today I removed the RapidBike unit and loom, which was a slight faff as it sits up alongside the battery at the front of the tank (Powertronics goes under the seat) and also is sliced into the OE loom in a couple of places, and once removed, I then installed the Powertronics box and Quickshifter I had on my 390 Duke with a new replacement loom as the RC and Duke are slightly different.
I also installed a K&N filter and replacement open airbox top which with fueling adjustments is meant to make a fair difference in the mid-range- we shall see..
I had planned to do all stuff this at the Dyno place tomorrow, so I'd get before and afters of every combination, but due to me not being able to be there, it's not really feasible, but what I should come away with is 3 traces , and two new custom maps, and a comparison as to how it stacks up to my previous 390

So, some pics, as I know we all like them

This is the RapidBike unit, the finned alloy box which slots in a space in front of the battery


Standard airbox and long snakey trumpet, which really isn't that big and draws air in from under the rear seat hump


And this is the new custom made lid with a K&N in there,


And half-way through the Powertronics install



That's it for the moment- Full report and dyno graphs to follow over the week-end, followed over the next few weeks by front fork and sticky tyre upgrades before venturing out for it's first trackday shake-down in April

[Tricky]

The RC390’s day on the dyno was an interesting one, with both good, and not so good outcomes .
The numbers we’re talking about are tiny here really, some may say comical/pathetic, particualy if you present them as £ per bhp, but what was interesting for me was comparing this one with my last slightly later (2017 Duke v 2016 RC ) 390 which I kept completely standard in terms of intake and exhaust.
As well as the comparisons with my old one, the boys here had also done another RC390 a month or two after my Duke and that one had a full de-cat system and they installed and custom mapped a PowerCommander on it, so I got that trace added to my before and afters for comparison .

Bottom line is that this bike (my RC390) is very slightly (~1 hp) down on peak power over my 2017 Duke and the other RC390 they mapped , but massively (relative term) stronger in the mid-range than either of them.
By massively, I mean approx. 5hp and 5ft/lbs – those numbers sound small, but believe me it’s significant when peaks you have are approx. 40hp and 25ft/lb.
The Powertronics and custom map made my old 390 feel more like my 525 in the middle, and this one now has some 20-25% more between 4k-6.5k than that one so it will be lively mid-range and will be a massively better road bike.
The road isn't really where this one is going to spend much of it's time though, and it's a shame the open airbox and Tyga exhaust doesn’t add any peak ( in fact this one was approx. 1hp down on my last one , but being realistic, that sort of difference can be down to so many things its not significant) , but that was probably an unrealistic wish on my part, and although on track I don’t anticipate spending much time in the mid rev-range, I’m sure there will be times when it’s of benefit.
Anyway, that’s the good stuff.

The not so good stuff is that this one likes a bit of a drink- of oil that is
It was on the dyno for about 5hrs in total and did a lot of runs, probably 50 or so, and drank 250-300ml of oil in the process- that's from top of sight glass to the bottom, and a lot on a relatively small single that only holds about 1.5l.
It’s got good compression ring sealin, as witnessed by the decent power we got, and no visible smoke under load , but coming back onto the throttle after shutting off would give us a stinky blue haze in the air.
Keith, my dyno man’s theory is that he doesn't think it's got any piston or valve damage (it’s done 900 miles in total) and the issue most likely stems from having “ too good” put oil in it when new, and been nursed too much in the running in period, with the result tht the oil control ring isn’t sealing as well as it should.
According to him Yams are prone to it, and R6s are particularly so if treated too gentle when new. My 390 Duke didn’t use a drop in my 2k-odd miles of ownership, and that was ridden flat out everywhere from day one so maybe there is some merit in that theory.
Anyway, we shall see. My plan is toplay it by ear for the first trackday or two, keeping an eye on the oil level, and if I think it’s a problem, the engine will come out and I’ll whip the top off for investigation, and assuming there is no damage in there, it’ll get a new set of rings ( and a bore hone if relevant, not sure if theses are chrome), follwed by my version of running an engine in

So the graphs:

This one is the hp before and after- less than 1hp increase at peak, but a healthy 10% or so increase all the way from approx. 5.5 to 8k, which is worth having and will definitely be felt.



These two show the final hp and torque graphs with baffles in and out (green & blue) compared against the Power commander equipped RC390 (red) they mapped, the curves of which just about identically match my post-tune 390 Duke.





What the AF traces on these two graphs also show is how much finer they can map with a PC5 than they can with the Powertronics unit, as you get 250 rpm increments on the PC5, compared to 1000 rpm on the PT, and that allows you to get a lovely, much smoother A/F trace than you can with the Powertronics unit.
But that doesn't really affect things too much in riding experience swings and roundabouts- the Powertronics scores in other areas- you can create custom ignition advance maps, vary rev limiter and alter quite a few other parameters that Dynojet don’t give you access to- not that important or relevant on a standard engine, but once you start playing around with compression ratios, cam timing etc

And this is the before and after roll-on, which going from what it was and those of my 390 Duke, look very healthy- should be a wheelie monster!



So, the upshot is we have a nicely mapped engine and a good base to work from- I’m going to change the oil (it came with what looked like pretty fresh 300V in it, so I haven’t changed it yet ) and whack some semi-synth in there, rag it around the roads a bit over the next few weeks assuming the weather stays reasonable, and I think I’ll book onto an April trackday at Bedford and see where we go from there before I make any decisions about pulling the engine to bits.
Will keep you posted...

[Taipan]

FWIW, every KTM I've had has guzzled oil, with my 950SM being the worse. I agree with the thrash them from the outset approach, rather than baby them. They just seem so different to Jap bikes in many aspects. Looks like fun to be had with this 'un regardless!

[KungFooBob]

I bought a brand new R6 in 1999.

Got bored running it in proper at about 200 miles.

When I traded it in three years later with 27k on the clock it was doing a litre every 100 miles

I used to strap a bottle of oil to the pillion seat if I was going further than the shops.

TBF I did rape it. everywhere. it needed a new gearbox at 5k because of the ham-fisted 2nd to 3rd changes on the back wheel, I snapped a clutch friction plate clean in half at about 20k.

[Dodgy69]

Very good read....I've never understood the oil consumption thing, some bike's do, some bikes don't, even identical bikes.

[weeksy]

39bhp and kicking the Inters group to pieces ! I look forward to having you pass me and thinking "how the fuck does he do that" at Pembrey.

[weeksy]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2016-KTM-RC- ... SwhqdgbF3O

[Supermofo]

Only just seen this last update. Not sure how I missed it.

There's a German Youtube channel which did loads of stuff on 690 Dukes and their theory on oil consumption was piston rock mainly on/off throttle at high revs. No idea if that's right or not.

In related news my 690 uses less oil now at 12k than it did.

[Tricky]

Me and the little 390 are on our first trackday of the year this week-end, so last night it was a frantic bolting back together and it's had it's first shakedown run ( it's actually the first time I've actually ridden it ) today around the roads of Buckinghamshire

Mods so far:

• OE Yam R6 rear shock, re-sprung to suit the 390 and my weight.
  Tyga dual-exit under seat ehhaust and de-cat
  K&N air filter with open top airbox
  Powertronics custom fuel and ignition map
  Quickshifter
  ABS removed
  Bendix MRR front brake pads
  Cup adjusable rearsets
  Dunlop Alpha 13 part-worns (CB500 racer cast-offs) fitted

That's currently about the size of it, apart from set the levers and rests, etc to suit me, and an oil and filter change and general check-over.
Its still running bog-stock (non-adjustable) front suspension and all the lights, plate hanger and standard fairing and plate hanger etc is in place, albeit the mirrors will come off for the TD.
I have acquired a fibreglass nosecone which means that I will be able to ditch the front fairing and lights, but I've run out of time for this weekend so it'll do its first trackday with all the lights.

So first impressions:-

Although I haven't managed to accurately measure and hence set rider sag on the rear yet due to non-availability of a glamourous assistant when I've needed one, I don't think it's far away with the 105Nn spring- I've got 5mm or so static, it feels right-ish bouncing up and down on it at rest and it felt really good on the road today as far as I went, so light and flickable, rock-solid stable but very controlled and compliant, at the rear at least, and most of the roads were pretty rough

The quickshifter is lush, just seemless and such a good thing to have on these bikes, as let's face it, 40rwhp really isn't that much and you really can't afford to be shutting the throttle unless you need to slow down, as you will
The brakes ( or front brake at least, I haven't really tried the rear) is mega- I'm going to need to warm those tyres for a lap or two as it will stand it on its nose with ease
It feels really gutless... in fairness to the poor little thing, that's probably more due to the other bikes I've been riding recently and my expectations- it was still easy enough to get 90+ up on the relatively short stretches I had it on, but a tarmac ripper it ain't and I'm gonna get absolutely mullered on that hill up to North Bend on Saturday, so some rude braking and stuffing up the inside might be on the cards


It's loud , and smelly. Will be interesting to see whether it makes it through noise testing, and although there is no visible blue smoke trail , when I had to stop at a junction or something, I could smell it so I will be keeping an eye on that oil level.
I've also got a small selection (well one other front and rear) of sprockets that I will also take with me- it's a very (very) long time since I've considered doing that


Further update to follow after Saturday- the forecast is cold but dry but whatever it is I'm going to enjoy it I know-I dug out my Drift camera and fixed it to the top yoke, so I should have some footage too, am really looking forward to the weekend!

[weeksy]

Gutted you're going a track so far away or I'd have tried to come over, but under Covid rules I likely wouldn't have been allowed anyway.

Have an absolute blast!

[Tricky]

First trackday on the 390, which was illuminating-it really was a make or break day for it and I will admit, after the first session I didn’t want to ride it again as it felt flat as a fart, was leaving a faint blue haze behind it, it was uncomfortable with too-high pegs, I was bashing into the rev-limiter, missing gears and slipping and sliding everywhere on the Dunlop Alphas ( although in fairness, there was still frost on the ground there an hour or so before that first session though )
But things picked up throughout the day and I got to enjoy it so it is staying ( for the moment at least )

Positives:

My budget rear shock upgrade worked a treat, felt very controlled and well set up, as borne out by the tyre wear pic below and although heavier weight linear springs in the front and relevant damping adjustments definitely would improve things the front end really isn’t that bad at all, I had good feel from it and allowed me to brake as deep as I wanted into corners, a nice surprise.
Admittedly Lydden isn’t exactly complex or fast so it may be a different story elsewhere, but an expensive front re-valve or cup forks are now definitely knocked off the list, really not a priority.

The brakes – just brilliant. Junking the ABS and Bendix MRR pads have given it as good a front brake as I’d want, just perfect for me with standard Byrbe caliper and MC

Not so positives:

The engine's appetite for oil.
It drinks almost as much oil as petrol! It was using approx 100-120ml per session at Lydden, which equates to ~ 150 miles per litre, which stating the obvious is not good and means there is something awry inside.
Although it runs well enough, doesn’t make any untoward noises, and looked there or thereabouts power-wise on the dyno, I can’t help feeling it’s down on power compared to my old 390 Duke – after mapping that my immediate and lasting impression was that it made it feel like my 525 and it would (don’t laugh) easily pick the front wheel up in 1st just off the throttle.
The RC just doesn’t seem to when in fact I think it should feel stronger with the proven gains that the airbox and exhaust mods showed- this could all be in my head, (or a result of the RC390 current running higher gearing and having a more head-down riding position ) as the dyno shows it to be stronger mid-range, and speed-wise it was indicating 90 or so at the fastest bits at Lydden, which is fairly respectable compared to my 390 Dukes 95-ish max at Pembrey, but CB500s and a TZR could gap me on the straight and up the hill , and the fact remains that burning that amount of oil is not power-enhancing, so the engine is coming out and I’ll be pulling it apart to sort things as soon as I get the time

As for Lydden itself, what a brilliant little track and the event itself (run by No Limits) was one of the best run days I’ve been on for a very long time- it was packed with a good few club racers who'd obviously camped the night before so we had to go in the dirty gravelly upper paddock, and there was a fair few red flags, but they were so quick at clearing things and getting us back out we really didn’t lose much time at all.
But the best thing was there was no hanging about in the collecting area- they call your group, you get down there, they check your band and bang, you’re straight out whether there are 3 or 30 of you- no waiting for everyone to assemble.
They also run straight through with no lunch break but finish at 15:00 which is a great format IMO (and meant we were sitting in the garden of the local pub at 5:30ish with pint in hand), and I had an absolute ball there with my new fast mate and same village neighbour Tim (the 765 was brilliant too and didn’t get overtaken all day except by him once but that’s another story),- I'll definitely be going back there as soon as I can

So one or two pics from the day below, along with a video from one of the sessions.

Our pit set up



Need to make some little heat guards for the exhausts- I was melting my boot on the RH one


The 390's rear Dunlop at the end of the day with my "new" £30 R6 shock fitted



And a vid of a session on the 390- was having a good sort of dice with a bloke on a big black Gixxer until he got a too bit enthusiastic with the throttle at approx 6:10 in, just after my mate Tim comes past me on his R6 at approx 5:50