revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Horse wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:07 am

Mussels wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:51 am

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:58 am BMW used to do Range Extended (Rex) i3 which used a 600cc twin cylinder engine. Cause the engine isn't connected to the wheels it can be rubber mounted and heavily isolated to keep it very quiet.

They stopped offering it when they increased the battery capacity. Presumably they didn't sell enough of them to make it worth it, which might tell you something about the want/need relationship on range. Dunno.

The i3 is a city car and not the one that it's wealthy owners would pick for a long journey, I wouldn't bother with a range extender in an electric second car.

See my post about the Ampera. It took three of us, plus luggage, comfortably along motorways, a 350 mile round trip. One colleague was able work on her laptop, then sleep, during the journey. I managed neither. But then, I was holding the steering wheel.

That's the sort of thing I'm thinking of and would make a good main car if it wasn't such an expensive option (or when ICE cars are banned).
It's also too small, not powerful enough and has a Vauxhall badge but I'm assuming if more people didn't have battery only tunnel vision then manufacturers would make more desirable versions. As it is few will make them as eco warriors won't touch them and normal people won't see enough value.

What you're describing is a hybrid, there's a few of them already.

Mussels wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:25 pm It's also too small, not powerful enough and has a Vauxhall badge


but I'm assuming if more people didn't have battery only tunnel vision then manufacturers would make more desirable versions. As it is few will make them as eco warriors won't touch them and normal people won't see enough value.

I wasn't suggesting you buy one of them Just that there was, years ago, something that demonstrated the benefits you wanted.

Re your second point, Daz says that there are cars available. TBH I've not looked specifically, but I'm sure that I've seen 'hybrid' badges on the back of big Mitsubushi 4x4s. If the government indicate that hybrids (IIRC they have already set a minimum battery-powered range) are the way ahead, then that's what they will make and sell.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:40 pm What you're describing is a hybrid, there's a few of them already.

Indeed, I have one.

It is not a supercar, but a 2.5 litre motor is quick enough if you boot it, and since it switches to an Atkinson cycle at low revs M'way cruising at almost-legal speeds is pretty economical. A bigger battery and it would be nigh-on perfect.

Horse wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:07 pm

Mussels wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:25 pm It's also too small, not powerful enough and has a Vauxhall badge


but I'm assuming if more people didn't have battery only tunnel vision then manufacturers would make more desirable versions. As it is few will make them as eco warriors won't touch them and normal people won't see enough value.

I wasn't suggesting you buy one of them Just that there was, years ago, something that demonstrated the benefits you wanted.

Re your second point, Daz says that there are cars available. TBH I've not looked specifically, but I'm sure that I've seen 'hybrid' badges on the back of big Mitsubushi 4x4s. If the government indicate that hybrids (IIRC they have already set a minimum battery-powered range) are the way ahead, then that's what they will make and sell.

I'm sure it's very economical and essential if you're travelling round saving the planet

Hybrids potentially offer the best of both worlds. The obvious corollary though is that they may also offer the worst of both worlds.

They are an interim step I think.

But to say buyers and manufacturers have "battery tunnel vision" is overlooking quite a lot of cars.

The first solid state battery powered vehicle is due to hit the market next year. >600 mile range and the ability to swap the whole battery pack for rapid pit stops.

The higher capacity battery technology should make the latter function more common in future. More power dense batteries, which are of course physically smaller for the same capacity as current tech, means you don't have to take up as much structure in the car with battery space and can hence afford the extra weight/volume of swappable batteries.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electr ... ll-battery

meanwhile...
https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/1/30/ ... hina-solar

Just thought I'd drop this one in here.

ZRX61 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:38 pm meanwhile...
https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/1/30/ ... hina-solar

I didn't know you were a Mormon.

demographic wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:43 am Just thought I'd drop this one in here.

I thought, well at least the reporter (as opposed to the host) knows how to pronounce Shenzhen.
And then he ruins it by saying 'this charger is 150kWh !!!
He's a reporter for 'Fully Charged' and he's saying the charger output is in kWh.

I know it shouldn't get to me that much but anyone with an O'Level in Physics (or a job presenting EVs) should know the importance of stating the correct units.

Still a shitload of lecky buses and taxis though eh?

One problem, cleaner air will mean more global warming, certainly in the short term.

Kneerly Down wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:08 am

demographic wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:43 am Just thought I'd drop this one in here.

I thought, well at least the reporter (as opposed to the host) knows how to pronounce Shenzhen.
And then he ruins it by saying 'this charger is 150kWh !!!
He's a reporter for 'Fully Charged' and he's saying the charger output is in kWh.

I know it shouldn't get to me that much but anyone with an O'Level in Physics (or a job presenting EVs) should know the importance of stating the correct units.

The type of mistake commonly made be people selling EVs (or the idea of them), handy as it makes it obvious who doesn't really understand what they are talking about.

Kind of amusing you two getting bothered about him just making a mistake and adding the h onto the end of the kw though eh?

As far as Ive seen most car chargers are rated in Kw, and that bloke added a h on it, likely getting it from his lecky bills. Bit of a fail but as far as I'm concerned doesn't remove the overall point that a city has replaced their fleet of buses and taxis with electric vehicles, greatly lessened polution and after a few years usage will also be lessening carbon dioxide output as well.

I didn't see all of this vid this morning as I was getting ready for work but with such huge fleets and vehicle to grid charging being possible they can even use the huge battery capacity to help balance the grid.

It was a simple mistake and probably from him seeing manufacturers rating their battery capacity in KWh rather than his leccy bill.

But that simple mistake makes it clear that he doesn't quite understand what he's talking about, if he did he wouldn't have made the mistake.
It's lovely that lots of short journey public transport is being replaced by EVs but I fail to see what that video has to do with people buying electic cars for personal use.

Google says 32,000 buses in the UK. In total.

Mussels wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:52 pm I fail to see what that video has to do with people buying electic cars for personal use.

For me, it gives an indication that mass-scale infrastructure, etc, is possible.

For me, it makes me wonder if digging in the ground for the necessary raw materials for the batteries is going to do more damage than we need.

Or are the raw materials for batteries infinite? Are we going to have a few wars when it's found that the CAR, Burkina Faso or some other backwards African nation have huge untapped supplies or worse still, the rain forests are sitting on all the lithium we'll ever need, well that we need more than we do the rain forests.

Yep, I know I'm being somewhat pessimistic and we certainly need a replacement for the IC engine but the question for me is, do we really need so many fucking cars?

Yambo wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:52 pm For me, it makes me wonder if digging in the ground for the necessary raw materials for the batteries is going to do more damage than we need.

Or are the raw materials for batteries infinite? Are we going to have a few wars when it's found that the CAR, Burkina Faso or some other backwards African nation have huge untapped supplies or worse still, the rain forests are sitting on all the lithium we'll ever need, well that we need more than we do the rain forests.

Yep, I know I'm being somewhat pessimistic and we certainly need a replacement for the IC engine but the question for me is, do we really need so many fucking cars?

Its a good point but lets face it, the oil producing countries are often run by undemocratic despotic bastards so I can't see it being worse than them.

Plus it seems that solid state batteries are starting to come on line, some modern batteries use less Cobalt than laptop batteries so its a move in the right direction.

Oh and Cobalt is actually used during the refining process for fossil fuels so thats even worse.

Yambo wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:52 pm do we really need so many fucking cars?

Good question. One of the relatively good things to come from the lockdowns is that people are adjusting their transport needs and methods.

Even if we maintain the same number of vehicles, fewer journeys will mean fewer charging cycles, so the resources used to make the batteries will last longer.

Plus, there's plenty of ongoing research into batteries that don't need some much scarce materials.