Pfizer vaccine approved

[Mr. Dazzle]

The phrase "herd immunity" has been in the news often enough for people to have looked it up by now

Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or social immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that occurs when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through vaccination or previous infections, thereby reducing the likelihood of infection for individuals who lack immunity. Immune individuals are unlikely to contribute to disease transmission, disrupting chains of infection, which stops or slows the spread of disease

Have the vaccine, or don't, but don't pretend its a purely selfish or cynical thing for everyone.

Quite right its not encumbant on you to save other people's lives. Its not encumbant on other people to do lots of things you benefit from either.

[wheelnut]

I didn't choose the analogy. The first P in PPE stands for "personal". It's to protect the individual. A long way second is to help the team to do its job but its primary purpose is to protect the individual. A cricketer's box doesn't protect the whole team's cock and balls, does it?

If Freddie Flintoff gets one at full pelt in the middle stump which rules him out of action for a few days and we lose the ashes because of it then yes, it affects the whole team.

Keep going, eventually the penny will drop.

[Gedge]

The vaccination is to protect the soldier who's vaccinated. You know, like the body armour protects his body, the boots protect his feet, the helmet protects his head and so on.

Body armour is there to protect the whole team, I could be talking out my arse as I’ve never been in the army, but it would make sense that if someone chooses not to wear body armour then his mates would be pretty pissed at him as he puts the whole team at risk as they have to put themselves at risk recovering his dead or injured body.

You’ve chosen quite a good analogy, it just works against your opinion.

I didn't choose the analogy. The first P in PPE stands for "personal". It's to protect the individual. A long way second is to help the team to do its job but its primary purpose is to protect the individual. A cricketer's box doesn't protect the whole team's cock and balls, does it?

If it was all about ‘ personal’ companies would just get you to sign a disclaimer and leave you to it ..fact is health and safety is a company responsibility and that’s why they issue it, and also why they insist that you use it when working ..

[irie]

The phrase "herd immunity" has been in the news often enough for people to have looked it up by now

Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or social immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that occurs when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through vaccination or previous infections, thereby reducing the likelihood of infection for individuals who lack immunity. Immune individuals are unlikely to contribute to disease transmission, disrupting chains of infection, which stops or slows the spread of disease

Have the vaccine, or don't, but don't pretend its a purely selfish or cynical thing for everyone.

Quite right its not encumbant on you to save other people's lives. Its not encumbant on other people to do lots of things you benefit from either.

Oh, you mean like I remember that some time ago SL had a serious blood disorder of some sort that took quite a lot of hospital/medical resources to diagnose and treat? I seem to recall that was at Addenbrooke hospital, but I could be wrong. Either way, unless SL was entirely self financing, which I very much doubt, his treatment was paid for by taxes paid by others for "the general good". I smell SL hypocrisy.

[Saga Lout]

Oh, you mean like I remember that some time ago SL had a serious blood disorder of some sort that took quite a lot of hospital/medical resources to diagnose and treat? I seem to recall that was at Addenbrooke hospital, but I could be wrong. Either way, unless SL was entirely self financing, which I very much doubt, his treatment was paid for by taxes paid by others for "the general good". I smell SL hypocrisy.

You mean all those National Insurance premiums I paid during my working life were for nothing? I thought that's what insurance was for.

[Potter]

AS I KEEP SAYING, THERE ARE COUNTRIES THAT ALREADY HAVE COMPULSORY OR CONDITIONAL VACCINATION PROGRAMMES.

Yes but do we want to be one?

It's all fine referring to other countries policies until those policies impact directly on your life.

As i have stated earlier, we all need to make our own decisions on what we want to do moving forward with this life with covid, if it continues like it is young people cannot just be expected to do nothing, there is going to be a time soon when we have to say no and make our own decisions, if the law restricts that then we are going to see riots and more divisions between society and if you support the law's they are imposing on us then you need to accept the fact that the life you live is not going to be as rosy as it is now!

People need to unite, except we don't all live the same life with the same goal and forget to just fucking live, so we have to argue about how to live!

Blimey Greenie, you’re making sense!

You’re wasting your time though, the elderly scaredy-cats here are frit of dying and they’ll bathe in the blood of virgins if they think it will stretch out their wretched existence an extra fortnight - so you managing to get to a pleasant gathering of young people enjoying themselves is unlikely until the pox is cured or they’ve all snuffed it.

[irie]

Oh, you mean like I remember that some time ago SL had a serious blood disorder of some sort that took quite a lot of hospital/medical resources to diagnose and treat? I seem to recall that was at Addenbrooke hospital, but I could be wrong. Either way, unless SL was entirely self financing, which I very much doubt, his treatment was paid for by taxes paid by others for "the general good". I smell SL hypocrisy.

You mean all those National Insurance premiums I paid during my working life were for nothing? I thought that's what insurance was for.

They're not for nothing, but if I recall correctly they will have counted for little in relation to the cost of the course of intensive treatment you received. You do, of course, know full well that NI payments are not invested in a fund for your benefit, they are instead a form of tax levied as general taxation for contemporaneous use. Nice try, but fail.

So back to the key point ...

Other people don't protect me against flu, those who have the flu vaccine do so to protect themselves.

"Other people" have vaccines both to protect themselves and to protect others through herd/community immunity. You will undoubtedly have benefitted from the latter throughout your life.

[wheelnut]

As i have stated earlier, we all need to make our own decisions on what we want to do moving forward with this life with covid, if it continues like it is young people cannot just be expected to do nothing, there is going to be a time soon when we have to say no and make our own decisions, if the law restricts that then we are going to see riots and more divisions between society and if you support the law's they are imposing on us then you need to accept the fact that the life you live is not going to be as rosy as it is now!

What will happen if the virus runs amok is that the health service will be totally overwhelmed, the TV pictures of people drowning in their own lungs in hospital car parks because the army are guarding the hospital doors to stop people getting in to overloaded hospitals will make everyone stay at home. That’s what has traditionally happened with large virus outbreaks and that’s why it’s eventually burned out.

Take or don’t take the vaccine. But you better hope that enough people will so that your life can return to normality.

[wheelnut]

They're not for nothing, but if I recall correctly they will have counted for little in relation to the cost of the course of intensive treatment you received. You do, of course, know full well that NI payments are not invested in a fund for your benefit, they are instead a form of tax levied as general taxation for contemporaneous use. Nice try, but fail.

I think it’s worked out at about 12k per day to stay in one of the beds in Mrs W’s place. 90 specialist nurses to man a 12 bed unit.

[Horse]

the elderly scaredy-cats here are frit of dying and they’ll bathe in the blood of virgins if they think it will stretch out their wretched existence an extra fortnight -

Ah, bless. The innocence of [relative] youth

My (now late) MiL, while she was in hospital with ovarian cancer, said to me: "Don't get old". It's good advice. Apart from as far as I can see, there only being about three alternatives- and only one that you get a choice for: early accidental death, early fatal illness, suicide.

Now, you've recently told us your plans for early retirement. Do you have further plans beyond that? Or are you going to stick around join the rest of us boring, moany, wretched old gits?

[Gedge]

AS I KEEP SAYING, THERE ARE COUNTRIES THAT ALREADY HAVE COMPULSORY OR CONDITIONAL VACCINATION PROGRAMMES.

Yes but do we want to be one?

It's all fine referring to other countries policies until those policies impact directly on your life.

As i have stated earlier, we all need to make our own decisions on what we want to do moving forward with this life with covid, if it continues like it is young people cannot just be expected to do nothing, there is going to be a time soon when we have to say no and make our own decisions, if the law restricts that then we are going to see riots and more divisions between society and if you support the law's they are imposing on us then you need to accept the fact that the life you live is not going to be as rosy as it is now!

People need to unite, except we don't all live the same life with the same goal and forget to just fucking live, so we have to argue about how to live!

Typical of today’s younger generation... riots, civil disobedience and just doing what you want because you are restricted ...never occurred to you for the youth to volunteer to risk the 0.0005% chance of an adverse reaction and have the vaccine as a way of achieving the same thing ?

[wheelnut]

You’re wasting your time though, the elderly scaredy-cats here are frit of dying and they’ll bathe in the blood of virgins if they think it will stretch out their wretched existence an extra fortnight - so you managing to get to a pleasant gathering of young people enjoying themselves is unlikely until the pox is cured or they’ve all snuffed it.

If your goal is to just become a caricature then you’re succeeding.

[slowsider]

AS I KEEP SAYING, THERE ARE COUNTRIES THAT ALREADY HAVE COMPULSORY OR CONDITIONAL VACCINATION PROGRAMMES.

Yes but do we want to be one?

It's all fine referring to other countries policies until those policies impact directly on your life.

As i have stated earlier, we all need to make our own decisions on what we want to do moving forward with this life with covid, if it continues like it is young people cannot just be expected to do nothing, there is going to be a time soon when we have to say no and make our own decisions, if the law restricts that then we are going to see riots and more divisions between society and if you support the law's they are imposing on us then you need to accept the fact that the life you live is not going to be as rosy as it is now!

People need to unite, except we don't all live the same life with the same goal and forget to just fucking live, so we have to argue about how to live!

Blimey Greenie, you’re making sense!

If only there was a way that people could get together to change the laws to suit the majority.

[moth]

The vaccination is to protect the soldier who's vaccinated. You know, like the body armour protects his body, the boots protect his feet, the helmet protects his head and so on.

Body armour is there to protect the whole team, I could be talking out my arse as I’ve never been in the army, but it would make sense that if someone chooses not to wear body armour then his mates would be pretty pissed at him as he puts the whole team at risk as they have to put themselves at risk recovering his dead or injured body.

You’ve chosen quite a good analogy, it just works against your opinion.

I didn't choose the analogy. The first P in PPE stands for "personal". It's to protect the individual. A long way second is to help the team to do its job but its primary purpose is to protect the individual. A cricketer's box doesn't protect the whole team's cock and balls, does it?

You're still using flawed analogies. A live squaddie can take care of himself and the team, a dead squaddie can stay where they are until the fighting's over. A wounded squaddie is a drain on the resources and effectiveness of the rest of the team, the REMFs who will have to recover them and patch them up, and on morale.

[moth]

You’re wasting your time though, the elderly scaredy-cats here are frit of dying and they’ll bathe in the blood of virgins if they think it will stretch out their wretched existence an extra fortnight - so you managing to get to a pleasant gathering of young people enjoying themselves is unlikely until the pox is cured or they’ve all snuffed it.

If your goal is to just become a caricature then you’re succeeding.

His goal is to become the same trolling, baiting Harry he was on TRC. I'd say that he's succeeded.

[Saga Lout]

Oh, you mean like I remember that some time ago SL had a serious blood disorder of some sort that took quite a lot of hospital/medical resources to diagnose and treat? I seem to recall that was at Addenbrooke hospital, but I could be wrong. Either way, unless SL was entirely self financing, which I very much doubt, his treatment was paid for by taxes paid by others for "the general good". I smell SL hypocrisy.

You mean all those National Insurance premiums I paid during my working life were for nothing? I thought that's what insurance was for.

They're not for nothing, but if I recall correctly they will have counted for little in relation to the cost of the course of intensive treatment you received. You do, of course, know full well that NI payments are not invested in a fund for your benefit, they are instead a form of tax levied as general taxation for contemporaneous use. Nice try, but fail.

It's insurance. Your insurance premiums aren't invested in a fund solely for your benefit. You pay your £500 (?) each year and if you write your car off, burn your house down, crash your bike, the insurance company buys you a new car, house or bike whether you've paid one premium or 50 premiums. That's how insurance works, it spreads the risk.

So back to the key point ...

Other people don't protect me against flu, those who have the flu vaccine do so to protect themselves.

"Other people" have vaccines both to protect themselves and to protect others through herd/community immunity. You will undoubtedly have benefitted from the latter throughout your life.

"Other people" get themselves vaccinated to protect themselves. Those of you with children didn't allow your own children to have the MMR vaccine to protect other people's children from measles, mumps and rubella, did you? Herd immunity is a happy by product but it's not the reason.

[Saga Lout]

Body armour is there to protect the whole team, I could be talking out my arse as I’ve never been in the army, but it would make sense that if someone chooses not to wear body armour then his mates would be pretty pissed at him as he puts the whole team at risk as they have to put themselves at risk recovering his dead or injured body.

You’ve chosen quite a good analogy, it just works against your opinion.

I didn't choose the analogy. The first P in PPE stands for "personal". It's to protect the individual. A long way second is to help the team to do its job but its primary purpose is to protect the individual. A cricketer's box doesn't protect the whole team's cock and balls, does it?

If it was all about ‘ personal’ companies would just get you to sign a disclaimer and leave you to it ..fact is health and safety is a company responsibility and that’s why they issue it, and also why they insist that you use it when working ..

Health and safety is a legal requirement, that's why companies take it seriously. It costs them money if they don't.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Those of you with children didn't allow your own children to have the MMR vaccine to protect other people's children from measles, mumps and rubella, did you?

I feel like this super amazing ability to determine other people's motives with such certainty is wasted here. Go forth and spread your powers for the good of mankind!

Oh....right....

As you were then

[Gedge]

I didn't choose the analogy. The first P in PPE stands for "personal". It's to protect the individual. A long way second is to help the team to do its job but its primary purpose is to protect the individual. A cricketer's box doesn't protect the whole team's cock and balls, does it?

If it was all about ‘ personal’ companies would just get you to sign a disclaimer and leave you to it ..fact is health and safety is a company responsibility and that’s why they issue it, and also why they insist that you use it when working ..

Health and safety is a legal requirement, that's why companies take it seriously. It costs them money if they don't.

My point exactly ...nothing (much) to do with them caring about YOU just covering their group arses .... They require you to have it because they don’t trust you to buy it or use it yourself unless it’s mandated ..

How many builders would wear steelies and hard hats if they weren’t legally / contractually required ? Trainers would be the norm because ‘ I’m not stupid and don’t need to be told not to drop things on my head or feet ‘ ..

[irie]

You mean all those National Insurance premiums I paid during my working life were for nothing? I thought that's what insurance was for.

They're not for nothing, but if I recall correctly they will have counted for little in relation to the cost of the course of intensive treatment you received. You do, of course, know full well that NI payments are not invested in a fund for your benefit, they are instead a form of tax levied as general taxation for contemporaneous use. Nice try, but fail.

It's insurance. Your insurance premiums aren't invested in a fund solely for your benefit. You pay your £500 (?) each year and if you write your car off, burn your house down, crash your bike, the insurance company buys you a new car, house or bike whether you've paid one premium or 50 premiums. That's how insurance works, it spreads the risk.

NI is a direct tax, it is insurance only by name.

So back to the key point ...
"Other people" have vaccines both to protect themselves and to protect others through herd/community immunity. You will undoubtedly have benefitted from the latter throughout your life.

"Other people" get themselves vaccinated to protect themselves. Those of you with children didn't allow your own children to have the MMR vaccine to protect other people's children from measles, mumps and rubella, did you? Herd immunity is a happy by product but it's not the reason.

As said previously, it is part of the reason.