revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Horse wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:59 pm

MrLongbeard wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:37 pm

Horse wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:17 pm So what do you think cars should have that they don't have now now and isn't on the cards?

Drivers that take responsibility for their actions / decisions.

OK, I'll bite and take you seriously.

What needs to be done differently, that hasn't been tried already (and presumably, as you're suggesting it, what has been tried hasn't worked)?

We could try an increase the number of police on the roads.
When they're all up and running we could increase the prison capacity.
Then we could maybe look at sentencing with an eye to it being a proper deterrent, a 12 or 24 month ban ain't worth shit, if it was drink / drug driving wouldn't be on the increase

MrLongbeard wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:04 pm drug driving wouldn't be on the increase

Is that an actual rise in numbers, or rise in detection (because of the availability of easy roadside testing), or both?

Horse wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:18 pm

MrLongbeard wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:04 pm drug driving wouldn't be on the increase

Is that an actual rise in numbers, or rise in detection (because of the availability of easy roadside testing), or both?

I wondered but I couldn't find any stats which makes me think there isn't anything shocking to see.

Drink driving casualty figures:

If you want the years I cropped out:

https://www.drinkdriving.org/drink_driv ... ics_uk.php

I saw that but it's quite out of date now, might be the new drug driving rules that came in 2015 confused things.

Mussels wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:17 pm I saw that but it's quite out of date now, might be the new drug driving rules that came in 2015 confused things.

Drug driving probably won't have affected drink driving crash stats apart from people possibly moving from drinking to drugs?

Horse wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:18 pm
Is that an actual rise in numbers, or rise in detection (because of the availability of easy roadside testing), or both?

If I had to hazard a guess, and that's all it is I'd say both.

Horse wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:51 pm Drink driving casualty figures:
https://www.drinkdriving.org/drink_driv ... ics_uk.php

They're pointless figures, and can't be used as a comparison year on year, cars are getting safer don't you know, these are more useful but woefully out of date;
https://www.drinkdriving.org/drink_driv ... statistics
https://www.drinkdriving.org/drink_driv ... statistics
https://www.drinkdriving.org/drink_driv ... statistics

I did see some decent figures on Statista, but I'm all out of freebies now so they're hidden behind a paywall.

Long story short, partial solutions such as alcolocks are not the answer, until full vehicle autonomy is a thing drunk, drugged, tired, distracted driving is going to be a problem, and I don't see fully autonomy being a common thing in my life time

MrLongbeard wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:34 pm They're pointless figures, and can't be used as a comparison year on year, cars are getting safer don't you know

True. Although a comparison could be made to overall casualty rates, that might depend on the type of crashes impaired drivers have (speeds involved, into pedestrians etc) compared to unimpaired drivers.

MrLongbeard wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:34 pm I don't see fully autonomy being a common thing in my life time

Full L5, do everything everywhere? If ever.

From RTE, of all places - US opens formal safety probe into some 765,000 Tesla vehicles

US auto safety regulators have opened a formal safety probe into Tesla's driver assistance system Autopilot after a series of crashes involving emergency vehicles.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said that since January 2018, it had identified 11 crashes in which Tesla models "have encountered first responder scenes and subsequently struck one or more vehicles involved with those scenes."

It said it had reports of 17 injuries and one death in those crashes.

The NHTSA said the 11 crashes included four this year, most recently one last month in San Diego, and it had opened a preliminary evaluation of Autopilot in 2014-2021 Tesla Models Y,X, S, and 3.

"The involved subject vehicles were all confirmed to have been engaged in either Autopilot or Traffic Aware Cruise Control during the approach to the crashes," the NHTSA said in adocument opening the investigation.

The probe covers an estimated 765,000 Tesla vehicles in the United States, the NHTSA said in opening the investigation.

Just to add some context for how bad things are on US roads, this year so far there have already been 31 fatalities of emergency responders (fire police ambo recovery) while attending incidents.

Horse wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:05 pm Just to add some context for how bad things are on US roads, this year so far there have already been 31 fatalities of emergency responders (fire police ambo recovery) while attending incidents.

My first thought when I read the RTE report was how does this compare to other cars? But then I realised they aren't comparing cars, they are just picking a situation where the car safety systems are clearly not working as designed so this seems more about car automation generally rather than Tesla individually.
There can't be many Tesla owners left that think autopilot means exactly that so I expect a big part of this study will be about driver attention as well as the software.

Mussels wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:36 am My first thought when I read the RTE report was how does this compare to other cars? But then I realised they aren't comparing cars, they are just picking a situation where the car safety systems are clearly not working as designed so this seems more about car automation generally rather than Tesla individually.
There can't be many Tesla owners left that think autopilot means exactly that so I expect a big part of this study will be about driver attention as well as the software.

You haven't met many American drivers have you.

Cousin Jack wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:08 pm

Mussels wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:36 am My first thought when I read the RTE report was how does this compare to other cars? But then I realised they aren't comparing cars, they are just picking a situation where the car safety systems are clearly not working as designed so this seems more about car automation generally rather than Tesla individually.
There can't be many Tesla owners left that think autopilot means exactly that so I expect a big part of this study will be about driver attention as well as the software.

You haven't met many American drivers have you.

He may have bumped into a few.

Cousin Jack wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:08 pm You haven't met many American drivers have you.

That's exactly what I was thinking

Horse wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:05 pm Just to add some context for how bad things are on US roads, this year so far there have already been 31 fatalities of emergency responders (fire police ambo recovery) while attending incidents.

And Tesla account for around 3.7 % of cars on the road.

Mind you, most US emergency responders seem to kill themselves. Rollovers account for more than 66% of firetruck accidents each year, and police officers are at double the risk of a crash per million vehicles driven as the general public.

Horse wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:05 pm Just to add some context for how bad things are on US roads, this year so far there have already been 31 fatalities of emergency responders (fire police ambo recovery) while attending incidents.

They're having a bad year.

39 while working, two more who were off-duty but stopped at RTCs.

Horse wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:26 am

Horse wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:05 pm Just to add some context for how bad things are on US roads, this year so far there have already been 31 fatalities of emergency responders (fire police ambo recovery) while attending incidents.

They're having a bad year.

39 while working, two more who were off-duty but stopped at RTCs.

It would be interesting to know if the increase of Teslas involved matches the increase of incidents, so standard year plus a few extra autopilot crashes.

Mussels wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:28 am It would be interesting to know if the increase of Teslas involved matches the increase of incidents, so standard year plus a few extra autopilot crashes.

I doubt it is all down to Tesla. Most manufacturers are fitting driver 'aids', intelligent cruise control, lane assist, auto-braking, etc, and many drivers expect these things to be perfect and they are not. In the US some of the highways are so long and so boring that the temptation to switch off and let the car do the work is enormous. And some US citizens are not the sharpest tool in the box. Add in the US culture which assumes everyone has a right to drive, and consequently a driving test system that is variable and a bit of a joke in some places.

Wait a few years and it will all be coming to a road near you, we always seem to import the worst bits f the US practice.

I very much doubt that it's due to Tesla.

From informal contact with people in the US, it's more likely to be what they call 'D drivers': drunk, drugged, drowsy and distracted.

With 41 fatal collisions (I haven't heard of a single collision with multiple fatalities), you have to wonder how many collisions occur.

NB

Horse wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:30 pm

Horse wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:08 am

Rockburner wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:05 am Sorry - but how the fuck do you NOT see one of those trucks.... Blackpool isn't lit up as much.

Every year, just on Highways England roads, 30 - 35 every year get clattered (some on the hard shoulder).

Just happened across this. Large vans, with beacons and roof-mounted light arrows. 26 that have been clattered, with 5 in 15 days.