Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

General chat topics, anything and everything you want or need to discuss
User avatar
Count Steer
Posts: 11828
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 6381 times
Been thanked: 4761 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Count Steer »

I read an interesting comment on why a number of the voices calling for a legislative framework for AI development and deployment are coming from the AI companies. There's nothing quite like being hamstrung by legislation to strangle small, innovative companies, ie the potential competition. Meanwhile the big boys and their lawyers can take it in their stride by, effectively, controlling what's in the legislation (getting onto or 'buying' the members of the legislative bodies and/or ignoring it then tying it up in knots for years in the courts.

Clearly, the infrastructure for these AIs (eg humongous data/processing centres) is expensive so I can't see anyone doing a start-up in their back bedroom, but ideas and designs etc often come from small, innovative start-ups. Superficially you'd think that this would get a :thumbup: from the big boys...but there's always a chance that a rival will beat them to buying up anything that looks promising - so they'd rather not risk it.

So, next time a Google exec goes on about the dangers and the need for legislation there might be a bit more to it...and the exec that just 'left the company' might just be putting a bit of clear water between themself and Google (decontaminating) ready to hop onto the legislative body. Beware the Trojan executive. :D

I can't remember what it was in though. It did make me more cynical about these industry voices clamouring for legislation.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one
.
Voltaire
User avatar
Yambo
Posts: 2470
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:08 pm
Location: Self Isolating
Has thanked: 598 times
Been thanked: 1647 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Yambo »

I'm not sure, but there seems to be a slight whiff of conspiracy theory in your post CS . . .

Maybe not having had Covid has had a different affect on my olfactory system.
User avatar
Count Steer
Posts: 11828
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 6381 times
Been thanked: 4761 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Count Steer »

Yambo wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 1:51 pm I'm not sure, but there seems to be a slight whiff of conspiracy theory in your post CS . . .

Maybe not having had Covid has had a different affect on my olfactory system.
You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to be suspicious/cynical of the motives and manoeuvres of Big Tech. :lol: I just raised it as food for thought that things may not always be as they appear at first sniff. The very fact that some of these companies seem keen on legislation is a cause for at least a raised eyebrow or two).

(The article was very well thought through and logically presented - and I wish I could find the bloomin' thing).
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one
.
Voltaire
User avatar
wheelnut
Posts: 2232
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:36 pm
Has thanked: 908 times
Been thanked: 1001 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by wheelnut »

Count Steer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:36 pm I read an interesting comment on why a number of the voices calling for a legislative framework for AI development and deployment are coming from the AI companies. There's nothing quite like being hamstrung by legislation to strangle small, innovative companies, ie the potential competition. Meanwhile the big boys and their lawyers can take it in their stride by, effectively, controlling what's in the legislation (getting onto or 'buying' the members of the legislative bodies and/or ignoring it then tying it up in knots for years in the courts.

Clearly, the infrastructure for these AIs (eg humongous data/processing centres) is expensive so I can't see anyone doing a start-up in their back bedroom, but ideas and designs etc often come from small, innovative start-ups. Superficially you'd think that this would get a :thumbup: from the big boys...but there's always a chance that a rival will beat them to buying up anything that looks promising - so they'd rather not risk it.

So, next time a Google exec goes on about the dangers and the need for legislation there might be a bit more to it...and the exec that just 'left the company' might just be putting a bit of clear water between themself and Google (decontaminating) ready to hop onto the legislative body. Beware the Trojan executive. :D

I can't remember what it was in though. It did make me more cynical about these industry voices clamouring for legislation.
I think it was in The Times a few days ago. As conspiracy theories go, it’s not very far-fetched tbh. I doubt there’s any clear cooperation between the big players, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that thought had crossed their minds.
User avatar
Count Steer
Posts: 11828
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 6381 times
Been thanked: 4761 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Count Steer »

wheelnut wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 2:13 pm
I think it was in The Times a few days ago. As conspiracy theories go, it’s not very far-fetched tbh. I doubt there’s any clear cooperation between the big players, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that thought had crossed their minds.
Might have been the Saturday edition (it's the only one I see), either that or the FT or Spectator.

It reminded me of a recent TV programme on food safety where it seems that the manufacturers have a bunch of puppets on the advisory bodies. I suppose if you need experts on such things you go to scientists who work in that area....who quite frequently have a project portfolio funded by....the manufacturers.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one
.
Voltaire
Mr. Dazzle
Posts: 13954
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:57 pm
Location: Milton Keynes
Has thanked: 2552 times
Been thanked: 6257 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

Its the same with any legislation, the people who know enough to write it are the same people who can take advantage of loopholes.

Sort of catch 22, waddaya gonna do?
User avatar
MrLongbeard
Posts: 4594
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:06 pm
Has thanked: 599 times
Been thanked: 2448 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by MrLongbeard »

Count Steer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 2:45 pm food safety where it seems that the manufacturers have a bunch of puppets on the advisory bodies.
It's the same as any working group, standards committee, directive & regulation group, they're made up of folk from industry, labs, stake holders etc etc.
Hell they'll let anyone in, I've been asked to join one again, I just need to decide if I need the aggro or not.
Supermofo
Posts: 5002
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:39 pm
Has thanked: 4362 times
Been thanked: 2852 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Supermofo »

Screwdriver wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:39 pm I have a pretty good idea what I would do. I’ll frame it as a question: if you were offered a brain implant which gave you extraordinary access to all human knowledge and built in network connectivity, would you take it? I fucking would! Because you can bet your bottom dollar every other fucker will jump at the chance of a 200+ IQ. Why not? You only live once, though it is perfectly possible, a super-intelligent being could easily modify our genome to stop or even reverse the aging process. Would anyone (in their right mind) say no to that?
Must say I'm the opposite. I remember Indiana Jones and all them Nazi's chasing immortality and learning beyond the ages. It never went well for them!

Nah. I'm happy with the wonder of things. Knowing there is so much to learn and doing so with the things I'm interested in is great. Knowing 'everything' seems a bit like just ideally clicking on the google symbol and endless scrolling through everything from what's happening in Love Island to the war in Ukraine.
User avatar
Count Steer
Posts: 11828
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 6381 times
Been thanked: 4761 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Count Steer »

MrLongbeard wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 3:31 pm
Count Steer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 2:45 pm food safety where it seems that the manufacturers have a bunch of puppets on the advisory bodies.
It's the same as any working group, standards committee, directive & regulation group, they're made up of folk from industry, labs, stake holders etc etc.
Hell they'll let anyone in, I've been asked to join one again, I just need to decide if I need the aggro or not.
I know that's true. They even let me in. :lol: (In my case on the one hand you had 'regulatory advisors' on the other you had 'the regulators'...who were the least impressive bunch of politically appointed jobsworths I ever met in the industry. Now we wonder why the various regulators couldn't find their bum in the bath let alone regulate anything. :roll: )
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one
.
Voltaire
Mussels
Posts: 4445
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:02 pm
Has thanked: 838 times
Been thanked: 1240 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Mussels »

Count Steer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 2:00 pm
Yambo wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 1:51 pm I'm not sure, but there seems to be a slight whiff of conspiracy theory in your post CS . . .

Maybe not having had Covid has had a different affect on my olfactory system.
You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to be suspicious/cynical of the motives and manoeuvres of Big Tech. :lol: I just raised it as food for thought that things may not always be as they appear at first sniff. The very fact that some of these companies seem keen on legislation is a cause for at least a raised eyebrow or two).

(The article was very well thought through and logically presented - and I wish I could find the bloomin' thing).
This idea sounds very plausible and I also think they know it's very hard to legislate against something that doesn't exist, AI is a concept rather than something clearly defined.
ChatGPT made it clear that a relatively unknown company could make a breakthrough and almost put the big players out of business quickly, they would probably rather nobody is allowed to innovate and disturb their nice business models.
As it turned out ChatGPT was over-hyped but I think they all saw the danger.
User avatar
Horse
Posts: 11558
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:30 am
Location: Always sunny southern England
Has thanked: 6196 times
Been thanked: 5088 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Horse »

From the Understandably newsletter:

I prompted ChatGPT for a definition. Here's what it came up with. (Hold onto this if you can, because we're going to come back to it):

Artificial Intelligence (AI): the capability of a machine or computer program to mimic human intelligence processes, learn from experiences, adapt to new inputs, and perform tasks that typically require human intellect.
I have to say: Not a bad definition. (Of course, if there's one thing AI should get right, it's probably the definition of AI).

I was prompted to use that prompt after reading an insightful, fun and marginally dystopian article on New York magazine's website, about the thousands of people toiling away at highly robotic tasks, in order to train AI robots.

Reason: If AI is supposed to learn from experiences and adapt to new inputs, then somebody has to provide the initial experiences and inputs.

This is a real job (maybe more of a "gig") to be exact. The people who do it are called "annotators" (or "taskers"). They're all over the world—primarily in economically challenged areas—for example, in small towns in the USA, sprawling African cities, and remote areas of South Asia.

If you're familiar with Mechanical Turk, aka MTurk, that's the idea: "a crowdsourcing website ... to perform discrete on-demand tasks. In fact, former Princeton professor Fei-Fei Li used MTurk 15 years ago to come up with people who were willing to label millions of images for AI purposes.

Now, there are tons of companies doing this, and their founders and stakeholders are getting rich, even while the annotators make roughly "the hourly living wage" for their location or more, according to a subsidiary of Google involved in the effort. The jobs are often mind-numbingly boring, requiring "learning to think like a robot" and follow extremely specific instructions.

But, they're better than other jobs the taskers are likely to find where they live. Among the typical tasks that the annotators and taskers do, as cited in the article:

- video calls,
- identifying corn in images and videos (apparently, "for baffled autonomous tractors"),
- looking at hundreds or thousands of photos of crowds, and identifying all the knees and elbows, since computers can't do that until we teach them,
- classifying American Reddit posts by emotion (there were noteworthy errors with this one, since the task was outsourced to countries where annotators were unfamiliar with U.S. slang), and
- simply making conversation with an AI chatbot for hours at a time, in order to teach it how to sound more human.

That last task earned an American worker $14 an hour. "It definitely beats getting paid $10 an hour at the local Dollar General store,” she told New York. The hardest challenge? Running out of things to talk about. "I just Google interesting topics."

There are also higher-paying tasks requiring specialized knowledge, like identifying specious or dangerous legal advice (J.D. preferred), or rating translations. (I found a few gigs, in case anyone happens to be fluent in Igbo or Sesotho sa Leboa, and would like to make a few bucks).

Anyway, I recommend reading the whole article if you can, but just to highlight a few key things:

First, for both corporate secrecy reasons, and maybe just to avoid a revolt, the annotators and taskers aren't told who they're actually working for, or even why they're doing it. However, they do sometimes figure it out. (“I Googled and found I am working for a 25-year-old billionaire,” said one worker in Africa. “I really am wasting my life.”)

Second, it's worth noting that if annotators are providing the experiential building blocks of AI, then at least some AI will start out by seeing the world as early 21st century humans with low economic prospects do, since they're the annotators.

Finally, companies employing annotators are always trying to find ways to cut costs, for example taking the jobs that were for Kenyans and moving them to Nepal. So, how do the workers react? Well, to copy the AI definition above, they "learn from experiences, adapt to new inputs, and improve their performances.

For example, they form networks on WhatsApp to share info about the best gigs. They get VPNs to suggest their in Missouri or Texas instead of Nigeria (to qualify for higher pay). And maybe most fascinating:

A Kenyan annotator said ... now, he runs multiple accounts in multiple countries, tasking wherever the pay is best. He works fast and gets high marks for quality, he said, thanks to ChatGPT.

The bot is wonderful, he said, letting him speed through $10 tasks in a matter of minutes.

So, we wind up with billion-dollar companies paying low wages to people to teach AI technology, but then the people making the low wages figure out how to use the same AI technology to trick the billionaires. Sounds peachy. Can anyone identify if there might be a problem with that?


Original article:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article ... ctory.html
Even bland can be a type of character :wave:
User avatar
Screwdriver
Posts: 2162
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:15 pm
Location: Wherever I lay my hat, that's my hat...
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 740 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Screwdriver »



Seriously, this is hilarious...
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
Plato
User avatar
Horse
Posts: 11558
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:30 am
Location: Always sunny southern England
Has thanked: 6196 times
Been thanked: 5088 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Horse »

Via Understandably, from here:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing ... irst-time/

Since the arrival of OpenAI’s ChatGPT in November, the clever AI-powered chatbot has taken the world by storm as people take the tool for a spin while also speculating about how the technology might transform the workplace and wider society. But for the first time since ChatGPT landed toward the end of last year, visits to the chatbot’s website have dipped, analytics firm Similarweb said. OpenAI’s site for ChatGPT fell by 9.7% in June, while the rate of unique visitors dropped by 5.7%. Also, the amount of time visitors spent on the website was down 8.5%.
Even bland can be a type of character :wave:
User avatar
Count Steer
Posts: 11828
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 6381 times
Been thanked: 4761 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Count Steer »

Anyhoo...anyone that's decided AI isn't a danger, to humanity or otherwise, might like to spend an hour listening to Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin at the Aspen Ideas Institute. For those of little patience it's been described as ''probably the most lucid and chilling tutorial on AI I have ever seen'. So, I'm in the 'needs policies and regulation by someone that knows what they're doing' camp.

Here y'go. Enjoy. :D

Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one
.
Voltaire
User avatar
Screwdriver
Posts: 2162
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:15 pm
Location: Wherever I lay my hat, that's my hat...
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 740 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Screwdriver »

great find and an interesting update.

TLDR for those who don't have an hour: we are so fucked...

Mo Gawdats book Scary Smart feels like it is an historical novel already compared to the progress in AI since I stumbled upon this issue. His solution (which turned into a bit of a ramble towards the end if you ask me) was that we need to treat these AI as our children. Knowing they will grow up to rule the world, teach them with love.

Fat chance of that sadly. Being half Persian myself I can tell you why AI suddenly "woke up" with the ability to speak Persian! Facebook reveals I actually do have half a dozen brothers from my fathers side. Doesn't take a genius to put two and two together. Let's hope they're not all like me...

Since we are effectively at war with Russia, I bet my bottom rouble they too will be furiously working on AI and they're not going to put the brakes on any time soon. China have virtually the entire worlds manufacturing capacity and a laissez-faire attitude towards intellectual property (which will become worthless compared to manufacturing ability). India is an entire continent with a massive population from which any gaussian distribution is going to provide them with a large number of genius developers and dev work is cheap...

The list goes on. There is an argument for suggesting that the responsible, developed world, USA and Europe will simply be shooting ourselves in the foot if we don't at least keep up with "our enemies".

And there's the rub. While it may be anthropomorphising to describe AI as "our children" and therefore we should teach with love is a sound proposition, the reality is AI will be trained on corporate greed, war and dominance. "We" will then pit one AI against the other.

Like I said, we are totally fucked. :thumbup:
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
Plato
User avatar
weeksy
Site Admin
Posts: 23427
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:08 pm
Has thanked: 5452 times
Been thanked: 13097 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by weeksy »

Screwdriver wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:25 pm great find and an interesting update.

TLDR for those who don't have an hour: we are so fucked...

Mo Gawdats book Scary Smart feels like it is an historical novel already compared to the progress in AI since I stumbled upon this issue. His solution (which turned into a bit of a ramble towards the end if you ask me) was that we need to treat these AI as our children. Knowing they will grow up to rule the world, teach them with love.

Fat chance of that sadly. Being half Persian myself I can tell you why AI suddenly "woke up" with the ability to speak Persian! Facebook reveals I actually do have half a dozen brothers from my fathers side. Doesn't take a genius to put two and two together. Let's hope they're not all like me...

Since we are effectively at war with Russia, I bet my bottom rouble they too will be furiously working on AI and they're not going to put the brakes on any time soon. China have virtually the entire worlds manufacturing capacity and a laissez-faire attitude towards intellectual property (which will become worthless compared to manufacturing ability). India is an entire continent with a massive population from which any gaussian distribution is going to provide them with a large number of genius developers and dev work is cheap...

The list goes on. There is an argument for suggesting that the responsible, developed world, USA and Europe will simply be shooting ourselves in the foot if we don't at least keep up with "our enemies".

And there's the rub. While it may be anthropomorphising to describe AI as "our children" and therefore we should teach with love is a sound proposition, the reality is AI will be trained on corporate greed, war and dominance. "We" will then pit one AI against the other.

Like I said, we are totally fucked. :thumbup:
when ? before the weekend ?
User avatar
Screwdriver
Posts: 2162
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:15 pm
Location: Wherever I lay my hat, that's my hat...
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 740 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Screwdriver »

weeksy wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:38 am when ? before the weekend ?
Difficult to say when so many people much smarter than me are seeing a "double exponential" rate of growth.

We might even be experiencing it right now for all I know.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
Plato
User avatar
DefTrap
Posts: 4504
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:23 am
Has thanked: 2265 times
Been thanked: 2193 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by DefTrap »

weeksy wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:38 am

when ? before the weekend ?
They could make it 8:45 Monday morning at least.
Who takes over the world on a Friday?
User avatar
weeksy
Site Admin
Posts: 23427
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:08 pm
Has thanked: 5452 times
Been thanked: 13097 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by weeksy »

Screwdriver wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 7:57 am
weeksy wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:38 am when ? before the weekend ?
Difficult to say when so many people much smarter than me are seeing a "double exponential" rate of growth.

We might even be experiencing it right now for all I know.
Or we may never see it :D
User avatar
Screwdriver
Posts: 2162
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:15 pm
Location: Wherever I lay my hat, that's my hat...
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 740 times

Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Screwdriver »

weeksy wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:02 am
Screwdriver wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 7:57 am
weeksy wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:38 am when ? before the weekend ?
Difficult to say when so many people much smarter than me are seeing a "double exponential" rate of growth.

We might even be experiencing it right now for all I know.
Or we may never see it :D
No. AI will become vastly smarter than humans, that much is obvious to anyone who looks at the development graphs. Many people are still clinging to the idea that "intelligence" and "self awareness" is impossible for any non meat based product.

No one has managed to explain why they "know" this to be true, perhaps you could, rather than sitting there making snide comments.

But then you haven't even bothered to watch that latest video have you...
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
Plato