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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:32 pm
by Yorick
Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:15 pm
Treadeager wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:03 pm
Have you never made a mistake or taken a chance then CJ ?
I take lots of chances and I have made many mistakes, but I try not to make them doing stuff that has potentially lethal consequences.
I fill my car with petrol, but I don't smoke while doing it.
I recharge my lithium batteries, but only with a specific charger made for those batteries.
Neither precaution is particularly difficult or onerous.
Many years ago in a remote Spanish petrol station, the lad filled the bikes with a fag in his gob.
We watched from about 50 yards away
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:37 pm
by Treadeager
Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:15 pm
Treadeager wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:03 pm
Have you never made a mistake or taken a chance then CJ ?
I take lots of chances and I have made many mistakes, but I try not to make them doing stuff that has potentially lethal consequences.
I fill my car with petrol, but I don't smoke while doing it.
I recharge my lithium batteries, but only with a specific charger made for those batteries.
Neither precaution is particularly difficult or onerous.
Since no-one can foresee the ultimate outcome of any minor indiscretion ( " the accident pit " ) guess you have had your share of luck too ?
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:06 pm
by Horse
Treadeager wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:37 pm] guess you have had your share of luck too ?
http://ukbikecom.blogspot.com/2008/10/s ... u.html?m=1
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:30 pm
by Cousin Jack
Yorick wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:32 pm
Many years ago in a remote Spanish petrol station, the lad filled the bikes with a fag in his gob.
We watched from about 50 yards away
Also many years ago, at a big filling station in Cornwall, I watched a bloke filling a bike with a fag in his gob, and it all went pete tong. He dropped the bike, petrol spilt, fag dropped and a river of fire ran under a car nearby. At that stage I left, rather quickly. I didn't read about in the papers, so I guess no one was killed.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:43 pm
by Cousin Jack
Treadeager wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:37 pm
Since no-one can foresee the ultimate outcome of any minor indiscretion ( " the accident pit " ) guess you have had your share of luck too ?
Probably true, but I try to learn from other's mistakes. The more I learn like that the luckier I get.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:36 am
by ZRX61
Potter wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:39 am
My retirement dream is that my house won't cost me any money now for the next thirty years and I'd like a car that I can buy and know it's going to be good for at least twenty without major capital expense.
Inbuilt obsolescence has made that an impossible pipe dream at this point.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:12 am
by Count Steer
Don't some manufacturers offer a battery lease scheme so they get replaced when they deteriorate past a certain point? (I thought there was definitely a Renault that was sold on that basis, but I vaguely remember it's little more than a savings scheme where you pay according to use/mileage so you're effectively saving for the new batteries. Handy if they fail earlyish).
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:19 am
by Horse
Count Steer wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:12 am
Don't some manufacturers offer a battery lease scheme so they get replaced when they deteriorate past a certain point? (I thought there was definitely a Renault that was sold on that basis
I know someone who bought a Zoe. He moved offices, the 50 daily commute reduced to 5 and he didn't want to use his Jag.
Had a few issues with the Zoe (the flap over the socket froze shut!) but, overall, was happy.
After a few years there were a couple of issues, he struggled to get a 'qualified' Renault dealer to sort it. So he decided that it had covered its costs, so he would scrap it.
But ...
- The battery would have to be removed
- The battery has to be returned to Renault. In France
- The contract states the he mustn't tamper with the battery, let alone remove it
Eventual solution was to sell it to someone who, apparently, has a warehouse of them. Possibly in Wales, FWIW.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:25 am
by Count Steer
Horse wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:19 am
Count Steer wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:12 am
Don't some manufacturers offer a battery lease scheme so they get replaced when they deteriorate past a certain point? (I thought there was definitely a Renault that was sold on that basis
I know someone who bought a Zoe. He moved offices, the 50 daily commute reduced to 5 and he didn't want to use his Jag.
Had a few issues with the Zoe (the flap over the socket froze shut!) but, overall, was happy.
After a few years there were a couple of issues, he struggled to get a 'qualified' Renault dealer to sort it. So he decided that it had covered its costs, so he would scrap it.
But ...
- The battery would have to be removed
- The battery has to be returned to Renault. In France
- The contract states the he mustn't tamper with the battery, let alone remove it
Eventual solution was to sell it to someone who, apparently, has a warehouse of them. Possibly in Wales, FWIW.
It should have been a simple exercise this scheme has recycling points for Renault all over the country.
https://www.cartakeback.com/official-ca ... p-renault/
Biggest issue is putting cars out there that dealers can't repair!
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:05 am
by Mr. Dazzle
ZRX61 wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:36 am
Potter wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:39 am
My retirement dream is that my house won't cost me any money now for the next thirty years and I'd like a car that I can buy and know it's going to be good for at least twenty without major capital expense.
Inbuilt obsolescence has made that an impossible pipe dream at this point.
We assume lifespans >20 years in the EVs we build. Not gonna tell you the figures of course but the cars are built for (multi) 6 figure milage and several decades.
The electric drive train is basically a non service item cause there's nothing really to service.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:23 am
by Mr. Dazzle
Well the only new bit is the battery and motor...both of which are notionally fit and forget. The only way you're really gonna service either is by sending it back to the factory, give or take.
I'm actually involved right now with the reliability and life elements of the design of our motors. It's really interesting to me cause I've worked my whole career in high performance stuff, motorsport, supercars, aerospace and stuff like that. This is actually the first time I've worked in slightly more mundane things. The life department at my current place is bigger than all of Ferrari for example.
So yeah, they put alot into it!
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:27 am
by Horse
Count Steer wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:25 am
Horse wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:19 am
Count Steer wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:12 am
Don't some manufacturers offer a battery lease scheme so they get replaced when they deteriorate past a certain point? (I thought there was definitely a Renault that was sold on that basis
Eventual solution was to sell it to someone who, apparently, has a warehouse of them. Possibly in Wales, FWIW.
It should have been a simple exercise this scheme has recycling points for Renault all over the country.
https://www.cartakeback.com/official-ca ... p-renault/
No idea. AFAIK he spent a considerable amount of time/effort with Renault.
Biggest issue is putting cars out there that dealers can't repair!
Don't get me started ...
We've just changed Filly's 4 year old, 20,000 mile, car because a dealer couldn't find a fault. It would just switch off, completely, at random times. Including when a mechanic was driving it through a busy roundabout.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:28 am
by roadster
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:05 am
We assume lifespans >20 years in the EVs we build. Not gonna tell you the figures of course but the cars are built for (multi) 6 figure milage and several decades.
The electric drive train is basically a non service item cause there's nothing really to service.
In theory cars could be like the everlasting broom which has a new handle every five years and a new brush head every two years.
i.e.
batteries wear out
brakes wear out
suspension wears out
electronic control components fail and units have to be swapped out
driveshaft wear out
wheel bearings wear out
... and so on.
All serviceable items but the reality has not changed and relatively few cars will survive. And this is all on the assumption that technology will reach a static condition even though we are in a state of constant change ( technical, political, and economic ) at the moment.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:05 pm
by ZRX61
Count Steer wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:25 am
Biggest issue is putting cars out there that dealers can't repair!
One big issue is building cars they can't sell. Ford are building 3x as many E Mach's as they are selling. & they're losing their arse on the ones they do sell
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:08 pm
by ZRX61
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:05 am
We assume lifespans >20 years in the EVs we build. Not gonna tell you the figures of course but the cars are built for (multi) 6 figure milage and several decades.
The electric drive train is basically a non service item cause there's nothing really to service.
That ain't gonna work with Tesla. The build quality is somewhere between Yugo & Trabant. Also: multi 6 figure milage and several decades?? On UK roads? with salt etc every winter?
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:21 pm
by Mr. Dazzle
Pfft, UK doesn't even appear on the spectrum. We have neither the fastest roads (Germany, natch) nor the most hilly, bumpiest, coldest, hotest etc. Just like the rest of the UK Environment our roads (and drivers!) are distinctly average
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:47 pm
by ZRX61
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:21 pm
Pfft, UK doesn't even appear on the spectrum. We have neither the fastest roads (Germany, natch) nor the most hilly, bumpiest, coldest, hotest etc. Just like the rest of the UK Environment our roads (and drivers!) are distinctly average
Around here we don't need signs telling us we're now entering a different county. When leaving LA County & going to San Bernadino, Orange, Kern, Ventura or Riverside counties you can tell by the immediate improvement in road surface. There are obvious lines across the road going from decrepit asphalt to new stuff. Coming back into LA County you can tell by the thump from the suspension. I don't recall that in the UK?
Entering Orange county is like someone turned the lights on. All the roads are better & the sides of the Freeway have more/better greenery, buildings are newer/cleaner, everything is visibly brighter. Coming back into LA County from Orange County is like entering the Dark Ages. The difference is quite startling.
LA county apparently has enough asphalt to built speed bumps all over the place, but not enough to fill the potholes.
No salt though.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:16 pm
by Mussels
This 20 year EV lifespan, are batteries designated as consumable items?
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:00 pm
by Rockburner
ZRX61 wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:47 pm
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:21 pm
Pfft, UK doesn't even appear on the spectrum. We have neither the fastest roads (Germany, natch) nor the most hilly, bumpiest, coldest, hotest etc. Just like the rest of the UK Environment our roads (and drivers!) are distinctly average
Around here we don't need signs telling us we're now entering a different county. When leaving LA County & going to San Bernadino, Orange, Kern, Ventura or Riverside counties you can tell by the immediate improvement in road surface. There are obvious lines across the road going from decrepit asphalt to new stuff. Coming back into LA County you can tell by the thump from the suspension. I don't recall that in the UK?
Entering Orange county is like someone turned the lights on. All the roads are better & the sides of the Freeway have more/better greenery, buildings are newer/cleaner, everything is visibly brighter. Coming back into LA County from Orange County is like entering the Dark Ages. The difference is quite startling.
LA county apparently has enough asphalt to built speed bumps all over the place, but not enough to fill the potholes.
No salt though.
You can quite easily tell when you're going from county to county these days.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:12 pm
by Mr. Dazzle
Rockburner wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:00 pm
You can quite easily tell when you're going from county to county these days.
It's easy in Oxfordshire, it's when the speed limit drops to 50
