revtothelimit - motorbike forum

They often do IME.

"Always" would seem the better option though

I suppose the law is worded the way it is to allow for the possibility of broken or otherwise obscured signs. If they lower the limit for safety reasons you have to make the situation default to "it's still lower even if the sign's broken" if you're making a safety argument.

I make no comment on how safe SMART motorways actually are.

That's a surprise, ah well, my system has kept my license clean so far, even if highways says it's wrong.

Ditto, I mean if they are blank, could easily have been turned off after you've passed the last gantry, be interesting to know if anyone has actually been done for speeding up after a blank gantry sign.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 2:16 pm That's why they have the smaller matrix signs of the start of the slip road innit, t'aint just for fun.

The small orange ones? I've always taken than as advisory rather than mandatory (enforceable)
Sheesh, I long for the days when M-ways weren't covered in cameras, what because they were / are the countries safest roads and the most you had to worry about was a bored copper sitting on an overpass

Way more cars now, even in my lifetime.

I'm referring to the two black square matrix signs like this. You can see they have the option to light up with the red circle which makes them a speed limit, not advisory. They can also light up with just a number, no red circle, which would make them advisory.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/XFRVd89haighk8Cu7

Ah, I've not seen those, I pass these as I enter the 'smart' M5 https://maps.app.goo.gl/UgfECur7wAfEZ7jX7 which are the old fashioned orange signs.

Well in that case I'd say you'd be on pretty solid ground saying you haven't passed a speed limit sign! I'd be very surprised if there's not a "smart motorway repeater" sign somewhere further up though.

McNab wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 2:37 pm Why can't they just display the reduced limit on all gantries in the effected stretch?

It can't be that hard can it?

I guess it's just another example of how smart motorways have been implemented in a piss poor way.

One simple answer is that some of the technology is crap. There have been occasions when even the control room staff didn't know what the signals are displaying.

We were planning trials of using the gantries to sign lane closures for roadworks. When we explained the series of signs and signals that would be displayed, one of the maintenance contractors asked " What, you mean they all have to be working?"

First night of trials, there was a closure on the opposite carriageway to replace one of the matrix signs

First 'smart' sign is 0.3miles (first camera is probably more than a mile upstream) from M-way entry, more than enough to get up to the NSL and be exceeding whatever speed was displayed on the previous sign around that exit.

It's not something that I'd ever gave much conscious thought to, thank sausages I only have to travel 'smart' M-ways one day of the week.

Horse wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:50 pm " What, you mean they all have to be working?"

Must be around every other week that there would be at least one sign having a flicker freak out

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 11:28 am Way more cars now, even in my lifetime.

I'm referring to the two black square matrix signs like this. You can see they have the option to light up with the red circle which makes them a speed limit, not advisory. They can also light up with just a number, no red circle, which would make them advisory.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/XFRVd89haighk8Cu7

A red circle doesn't quite make it a speed limit, just as normal speed limit signs don't by themselves. There also needs to be a law backing them up as IIRC some more expensive solicitors have proven in court.
I expect the gantries on smart motorways are covered by law otherwise we'd know about it but these matrix signs might not be.

Well those particular ones on the M1 would seem pretty well covered. Unless the argument is the matrix signs on the slip way aren't considered speed limits signs, which would be weird. Still, weird things do happen in law.

Just looking back at my own Google maps link, the signs are AFTER the Blue M1 signs so I think its pretty clear they're on the M1 and hence covered by the legislation.

Similarly the signs would also seem to line up with the requirements of Part 2 of...https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... chedule/10

Curious how they've got a separate act for every section of smart motorway.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/202 ... 956_en.pdf

Moral of the story would seem to be don't claim it's not fair if you got nicked on the M1 for speeding in the variable speed limit section between J13 and J16

McNab wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 2:37 pm Why can't they just display the reduced limit on all gantries in the effected stretch?

It can't be that hard can it? It starts here, ends there, all other gantries between get lit up.

I guess it's just another example of how smart motorways have been implemented in a piss poor way.

Is the right answer. The speed limits are all over the place as already mentioned, and the warning signs report obstacles that aren't there, and fail to warn of ones that are. Last year, heading up the M1 in a section that's been 'smartened', there five miles of red x's and not a sign of an obstruction, then a couple of miles later a stationary HGV that appeared to have run into the back of a car (on a free-flowing section!) where there was zero warning.

I think I can honestly say I've seen more false alarms than genuine alerts. No wonder drivers ignore them.

Mussels wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 4:38 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 11:28 am Way more cars now, even in my lifetime.

I'm referring to the two black square matrix signs like this. You can see they have the option to light up with the red circle which makes them a speed limit, not advisory. They can also light up with just a number, no red circle, which would make them advisory.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/XFRVd89haighk8Cu7

A red circle doesn't quite make it a speed limit, just as normal speed limit signs don't by themselves. There also needs to be a law backing them up as IIRC some more expensive solicitors have proven in court.
I expect the gantries on smart motorways are covered by law otherwise we'd know about it but these matrix signs might not be.

This gives illustrations have how speed limits are displayed:

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/motorway-signals.html

eg:



But you're correct that appropriate Traffic Restriction Orders need to be in place, etc.