Riding irreplaceable motorcycles

[Nobby]

Two stories spring to mind.
One was the BiL was offered a ride on Loris Caporossi's 2003 Moto GP Ducati at the Dunsfold Wings and Wheels a few years back. Just a straight line down the runway, but it had started to rain 10 minutes before the off. He was bricking it. A fair crowd and the knowledge,as it was the loudest thing there, that if you rolled it off, everyone would know. He did keep it pinned and it did spin up towards the end.
The other was an old mate. Chris Dabbs. Him of MCN, before his accident. His Dad used to look after Nick Masons car and bike collection. He had just purchased an MV America 750 from someone in Chichester. Chris was offered up to go and collect. He was a couple of miles into the journey on the bypass there when he thought he would give it a handful between roundabouts. Mmmm. It didn't end well. The throttle got stuck in the loud position.......no engine kill button....... Keys old style beside the front of the tank next to the headstock......he hung on a while. A short while. Before bailing out on the roundabout as the bike carried on past him before ending up on its side......... still full on loud....... for a fair while until he was able to get his body and his thoughts together.

[Trinity765]

I can't remember ever having said no to a go even when it's been a ridiculous idea. Nothing bad has ever happened, thankfully.

While waiting for a puncture to be repaired on a hot Spanish day a friend offered me a go on his Tiger Sport. Not a valuable bike but 'effin' huge for me at 5'2". Despite the fact that I was terrified I still had a bimble on it. While waiting at a junction I waggled the bike side to side working out how far I could comfortably lean it and I unknowingly got both hero blobs stuck down each boot so couldn't lift my feet up onto the pegs when I set off onto a fast, busy road. I did the last mile in 1st

If you're going to have a go on an irreplaceable bike, make sure you know beforehand what you're getting out of it. It won't stop it from happening but it will help you reconcile with yourself afterward if it goes tits up

[porter_jamie]

1996 MuZ 690 works race bike, they made 6 of them, no one knows where the factory development bike is so there are 5 left, Brian's is no.3, he intends to race it again later this year, apparently it can go in the class for older single cylinder bikes, but it's faster than the Kramer KTMs that are currently the single cylinder bikes to race. Brian had it from new, raced it in 98 and 99, sold it so he could buy an Aprillia to race, he bought it back off the bloke he sold it to, apparently it hasn't been ridden since 2001. We've gone over it and it's nearly ready to ride.

Dangerous Brian? Green something surname? It's a race bike it's meant to be crashed. He could pedal that back in the day.

Yep, Dangerous Brian, we've been mates since about 1990

Did you used to spanner it for him, he usually had a lad helping most meetings

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Paul was more regular than me, I helped at Mallory, Snetterton and Cadwell.

[porter_jamie]

Ah yes I remember Paul

[DefTrap]

I probably wouldn't but, if the boot was on the other foot, I wouldn't lend a vehicle to someone if I couldn't afford the repercussions of a prang. And tbh I wouldn't want to push the repercussions on to someone else. But then I also wouldn't lend a vehicle to any terrible pratts either. Give generously or not at all.

[Couchy]

What is the bike?

1996 MuZ 690 works race bike, they made 6 of them, no one knows where the factory development bike is so there are 5 left, Brian's is no.3, he intends to race it again later this year, apparently it can go in the class for older single cylinder bikes, but it's faster than the Kramer KTMs that are currently the single cylinder bikes to race. Brian had it from new, raced it in 98 and 99, sold it so he could buy an Aprillia to race, he bought it back off the bloke he sold it to, apparently it hasn't been ridden since 2001. We've gone over it and it's nearly ready to ride.

Some of those Kramers are 85hp, not quite standard either. Guy in our yard puts £1000’s into them

[MrLongbeard]

I wouldn't but then I generally don't ride other people's bikes, it's been a long term philosophy since I was old enough to know that crashing them would cost me money I didn't have - and I just stuck to it.

Works for me too, also no bugger gets a go on mine either.

[Yorick]

At Cadwell in 1990 my pal was riding for Padgett's and brought both his race bikes to a test day. I'd just finished so was still quick.

The GSXR750 was fun and predictable. I really enjoyed it and lap times were OK.

The ex Schwantz RG500 was mental. Scary fast. Only did 4 laps before I brought it in.

Too hard to enjoy and too expensive to crash.

After a couple of years they rented it out at about £1,000 a day.
M.C.N. put it through speed trap at 195. It was scary quick.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

What is the bike?

1996 MuZ 690 works race bike, they made 6 of them, no one knows where the factory development bike is so there are 5 left, Brian's is no.3, he intends to race it again later this year, apparently it can go in the class for older single cylinder bikes, but it's faster than the Kramer KTMs that are currently the single cylinder bikes to race. Brian had it from new, raced it in 98 and 99, sold it so he could buy an Aprillia to race, he bought it back off the bloke he sold it to, apparently it hasn't been ridden since 2001. We've gone over it and it's nearly ready to ride.

Some of those Kramers are 85hp, not quite standard either. Guy in our yard puts £1000’s into them

Brian's 690 was making 75bhp when it was last dyno'd (25 years ago), it has an alloy frame made by Tigcraft and Ohlins suspension, it's pretty much the single cylinder equivalent of a GP bike, it was about £9K new in 1996ish, the lap times for the Kremers are a little slower than Brian's times of 25 years ago at Donington (it's the only track we could think that hadn't changed for 25 years) so he should be in the pace, if I was riding the MuZ it would be way off the pace.

[mangocrazy]

1996 MuZ 690 works race bike, they made 6 of them, no one knows where the factory development bike is so there are 5 left, Brian's is no.3, he intends to race it again later this year, apparently it can go in the class for older single cylinder bikes, but it's faster than the Kramer KTMs that are currently the single cylinder bikes to race. Brian had it from new, raced it in 98 and 99, sold it so he could buy an Aprillia to race, he bought it back off the bloke he sold it to, apparently it hasn't been ridden since 2001. We've gone over it and it's nearly ready to ride.

Some of those Kramers are 85hp, not quite standard either. Guy in our yard puts £1000’s into them

Brian's 690 was making 75bhp when it was last dyno'd (25 years ago), it has an alloy frame made by Tigcraft and Ohlins suspension, it's pretty much the single cylinder equivalent of a GP bike, it was about £9K new in 1996ish, the lap times for the Kremers are a little slower than Brian's times of 25 years ago at Donington (it's the only track we could think that hadn't changed for 25 years) so he should be in the pace, if I was riding the MuZ it would be way off the pace.

What class is Brian intending to race in? Is it a 'historic' class, where you have to run them as they were in the 1990s, or are updates allowed (as long as they're 'period') ? If new tech under the covers is allowed then it gets harder for 'original' bikes. I'd like to see the Hejira carbon fibre-framed singles racing again, but the main man DC passed away a couple of years ago and no-one is picking up the baton.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

He's going to go in the Historic class as the bike is exactly as it was when he last raced it in 1999, but he thinks he can beat all of the new bikes with it and is going to try, both classes share a grid.

I can't remember anyone racing a Hejira in the late 90s, I remember the competition being Ray Stringer (I think) on an MuZ similar to Brian's but with a 720 engine (that needed a rebuild after every meeting) and a BMW engined bike (actually a Rotax engine)

[mangocrazy]

He's going to go in the Historic class as the bike is exactly as it was when he last raced it in 1999, but he thinks he can beat all of the new bikes with it and is going to try, both classes share a grid.

I can't remember anyone racing a Hejira in the late 90s, I remember the competition being Ray Stringer (I think) on an MuZ similar to Brian's but with a 720 engine (that needed a rebuild after every meeting) and a BMW engined bike (actually a Rotax engine)

It would be great if an old bike could beat the new stuff, but I suspect it won't be easy. However the lap times would indicate it's possible...

I'm not sure how far into the 90s Hejira raced in Sound of Singles - I can remember turning up at Derek's place in Gawcott in 1990 or 1991 and feeling my jaw hit the floor as I saw a full carbon frame and swingarm on stands and being built up into a race bike. This was 2 or 3 years befoere even Cagiva had a shot at CF frames/swingarms. I know they used Rotax motors and had a very distinctive 'up turned bathtub' seat that received a fair bit of ridicule but was very aerodynamically efficient.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

If it was the air cooled Rotax 640 engine it was a bit slow by 1996, Brian raced a reverse cylinder TZR250 that had a Rotax 640 in it before the MuZ, it was fast enough for club racing but too slow for National racing compared with the water cooled Yamaha and BMW Rotax engines, interestingly no one used the 5 valve Aprllia Rotax engine.

[mangocrazy]

Can't remember what flavour of Rotax it was, unfortunately. Best of luck to Brian and keep us posted on results!

[porter_jamie]

Adrian stringer not Ray. The BMW motor is the f650.

[porter_jamie]

He's going to go in the Historic class as the bike is exactly as it was when he last raced it in 1999, but he thinks he can beat all of the new bikes with it and is going to try, both classes share a grid.

I can't remember anyone racing a Hejira in the late 90s, I remember the competition being Ray Stringer (I think) on an MuZ similar to Brian's but with a 720 engine (that needed a rebuild after every meeting) and a BMW engined bike (actually a Rotax engine)

It would be great if an old bike could beat the new stuff, but I suspect it won't be easy. However the lap times would indicate it's possible...

I'm not sure how far into the 90s Hejira raced in Sound of Singles - I can remember turning up at Derek's place in Gawcott in 1990 or 1991 and feeling my jaw hit the floor as I saw a full carbon frame and swingarm on stands and being built up into a race bike. This was 2 or 3 years befoere even Cagiva had a shot at CF frames/swingarms. I know they used Rotax motors and had a very distinctive 'up turned bathtub' seat that received a fair bit of ridicule but was very aerodynamically efficient.

Derek used rotax 605 engines which were 604 engines under the head gasket and a water cooled twin cam head above. The issue was reliability as the crankcases cracked with monotonous regularity. My brother and I made billet crankcases for them and sold a few. They last seasons and seasons and I never saw one break.
The ktm690 motor is the one to have as you can get big power.and it's got a 6sp box,.and nova do a cr for it. Now Ducati have a new mono engine I expect the Europeans will be sticking one in a proper chassis any time now.

[mangocrazy]

He's going to go in the Historic class as the bike is exactly as it was when he last raced it in 1999, but he thinks he can beat all of the new bikes with it and is going to try, both classes share a grid.

I can't remember anyone racing a Hejira in the late 90s, I remember the competition being Ray Stringer (I think) on an MuZ similar to Brian's but with a 720 engine (that needed a rebuild after every meeting) and a BMW engined bike (actually a Rotax engine)

It would be great if an old bike could beat the new stuff, but I suspect it won't be easy. However the lap times would indicate it's possible...

I'm not sure how far into the 90s Hejira raced in Sound of Singles - I can remember turning up at Derek's place in Gawcott in 1990 or 1991 and feeling my jaw hit the floor as I saw a full carbon frame and swingarm on stands and being built up into a race bike. This was 2 or 3 years befoere even Cagiva had a shot at CF frames/swingarms. I know they used Rotax motors and had a very distinctive 'up turned bathtub' seat that received a fair bit of ridicule but was very aerodynamically efficient.

Derek used rotax 605 engines which were 604 engines under the head gasket and a water cooled twin cam head above. The issue was reliability as the crankcases cracked with monotonous regularity. My brother and I made billet crankcases for them and sold a few. They last seasons and seasons and I never saw one break.
The ktm690 motor is the one to have as you can get big power.and it's got a 6sp box,.and nova do a cr for it. Now Ducati have a new mono engine I expect the Europeans will be sticking one in a proper chassis any time now.

Nice one - thanks for that information. Billet crankcases do ring a bell now you mention it. I also saw a billet 125cc engine that Derek was working on, with a view to running it in 125cc GPs, as I recall. I'm not sure if anything came of it. Do you know Jon Slenzak, by any chance? He was a buddy of Derek's.

I remember in the late 90s that 888 and 916 crankcases were breaking regularly, due to the tooling needed to be replaced at the factory and everything going out of spec.

[Taipan]

I wouldn't but i don't ride other people's bikes or like lending mine out either.

[porter_jamie]

It would be great if an old bike could beat the new stuff, but I suspect it won't be easy. However the lap times would indicate it's possible...

I'm not sure how far into the 90s Hejira raced in Sound of Singles - I can remember turning up at Derek's place in Gawcott in 1990 or 1991 and feeling my jaw hit the floor as I saw a full carbon frame and swingarm on stands and being built up into a race bike. This was 2 or 3 years befoere even Cagiva had a shot at CF frames/swingarms. I know they used Rotax motors and had a very distinctive 'up turned bathtub' seat that received a fair bit of ridicule but was very aerodynamically efficient.

Derek used rotax 605 engines which were 604 engines under the head gasket and a water cooled twin cam head above. The issue was reliability as the crankcases cracked with monotonous regularity. My brother and I made billet crankcases for them and sold a few. They last seasons and seasons and I never saw one break.
The ktm690 motor is the one to have as you can get big power.and it's got a 6sp box,.and nova do a cr for it. Now Ducati have a new mono engine I expect the Europeans will be sticking one in a proper chassis any time now.

Nice one - thanks for that information. Billet crankcases do ring a bell now you mention it. I also saw a billet 125cc engine that Derek was working on, with a view to running it in 125cc GPs, as I recall. I'm not sure if anything came of it. Do you know Jon Slenzak, by any chance? He was a buddy of Derek's.

I remember in the late 90s that 888 and 916 crankcases were breaking regularly, due to the tooling needed to be replaced at the factory and everything going out of spec.

I used to work with Derek's son at twr. I think I may have met Jon.
Derek did his own thing. the seat units were made for aero not styling.
The muz chassis is steel not ally and they were made by Dave Pearce (Tigcraft), I believe. Very similar to his big tube steel chassis. The road muz ones are a lot heavier so I'm told.
My brother had a reverse cylinder TZ chassis with a rotax in it. It was quite good. Ended up with the billet cases, and fuel injection in the end which I designed. It worked, most of the time. Too complicated and unreliable but when it was working it made lots of power.